The Mental Funny Bone

Bare Bones Banter with Will Person

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Join Sarah and Christine with their co-host Becca on this episode of 'The Mental Funny Bone' as they dive into an enthralling conversation with their guest, Will Person. With a past as a Team USA bobsledder, Will sheds light on his near-decade-long experience of plummeting down icy tracks and the hidden torment of his CTE diagnosis. The crew discusses his transformation from facing repeated concussions to becoming a fervent advocate for CTE awareness in winter sports and how hyperbaric oxygen therapy has significantly improved his life. The episode uncovers Will's mission to help athletes and veterans by launching a CTE recovery center amidst facing daunting legal battles, exposing the brutal 'good old boy' network within the sports industry, and advocating for safety reforms. Will's courage and resilience make this episode both eye-opening and inspirational for anyone looking to understand the shocking impact of untreated concussions.

How to find mental health help when you're struggling. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
https://washingtoncountyhumanservices.com/agencies/behavioral-health-developmental-services
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Human-Services-DHS/Publications/Resource-Guides
Apps - Just search mental health where you get your apps.
EAP programs are a great place to look for help!!

Additional Resources (Sports Related):
https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2020/12/04/mental-health-resources-2/

Sarah:

Welcome to The Mental Funny Bone. I'm Sarah. Uh, I'm joined by my beautiful, wonderful, amazing sister Christine and our lovely intern turned, co-host Becca. And hello. Today we have with us a guest who has a story that runs from adrenaline to advocacy. Will person spent nearly a decade flying down icy tracks as a team USA Bob's letter, and now he's taking on the silent epidemic of CTE in winter sports after living through the hidden fallout of repeated concussions. He's turned his focus to real solutions, including hyperbaric oxygen therapy and launching a CTE recovery center to help athletes and veterans will. We're super happy to have you here. And, um, before we start, I just wanna say, I've been doing a little bit of reading about your story, and I don't know if this is the right word, I'm kind of using it in two different contexts, but absolutely chilling in the, in the meaning that, like the beginning of your story and the shit that you've seen and gone through and experienced, like heart wrenching, giving me literally full body chills and then how you're coming out of it and the awesome things that you're doing for other people. Also, full body chills. So everything I've read about you is just, it's, what's the word I'm looking for? Enthralling. Is that the word? Is that the right word?

Chris:

You pick the words and the people will tell you if they're right or wrong. Okay. So anyway, you do.

Sarah:

Anyway, that's, that's really all I had to say. I'll leave it to the other guys to ask questions and I will probably jump in and interrupt a thousand times with questions. Again, thank you for being with us and I'm really excited to hear more about what you're doing.

Will:

Well, thank you for having me. But also, I wanna say one thing, you were trying to, you were saying the word enthralling or whatever you used, like I've lost, like I'm losing words seem like hourly. Yeah. So there's a lot of words I can't say anymore. Then sometimes I see these really weird words and I'll be like, oh my God, I know what that means. And then I'll be a couple days later I'll be like, Hey, wait a minute. I already knew what that was. So my mind is a little bit ish. It's compromised. Yeah. Read any words. If I don't understand, I'm gonna let you know, but there's a lot of words I just can't use or even say'em anymore.

Sarah:

I can't imagine. Like I, I've suffered a little bit of brain fog from having COVID a few times, and I imagine that that is super minor compared to the challenges that, that you overcome daily. So I, I mean, I get it and I will lose my words a few times as well. So we'll do that together while we get through this.

Will:

Well, I appreciate, oh yeah, that's, that's the one scary thing about my condition is like, it looks like a lot of other conditions. So a lot of people haven't been getting proper treatment or diagnosis and like, I found one the other day, this one might be a little bit far off, so feel free to pull me back in. Uh, Kanye West released a new video, a documentary, and I didn't wanna go see it, but I, I won, you know, my girlfriend wanted to see it, so I wouldn't want to go see it. And, um, I'm watching this guy and I've always had, I don't believe he's bipolar. It doesn't. Mental health was my background. My first place I ever worked after college. I worked at the, um, it's the first mental health facility west of the Mississippi River. So you, all the extreme behaviors went there to get help. So I saw like from depression all the way up to, uh, you know, bipolar, schizophrenia, a lot of, lot of schizophrenic people. Uh, what was the other ones? Um, criminally insane. I had some of those in there sometime and we all even had people still floating around who had lobotomies back in the day. They were still alive back then. Yeah, it's crazy. So I saw, so when I see Kanye, I was like, that's not bipolar. Maybe schizophrenic, but definitely not bi. So as I'm watching his, his documentary, I was like, you know what, his mannerisms and the stuff he's exploding, it looks just like people with CTE and or post-concussion stuff. Then I remember he rapped me in one of his videos or songs he raps about almost not getting a contract because he had a bad car accident. He broke his jaw and I'm like, that's the head injury. Wait a minute. And then the biggest thing when I did the math, when you get a bipolar or a schizophrenic diagnosis, you get that around age 18, maybe 21, but you're not making it past 21 without that diagnosis.'cause usually you're doing something bizarre and everybody's seeing it and you're going to get that medicine. Your teachers, somebody's gonna see it and you're gonna get that diagnosis. How did he get his at 40? That's just no.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Will:

So I start connecting the dots. I says probably was the head injury that he had in that car back then. Just like myself. They didn't treat that stuff. And I'll tell you how sure I am about it. I lined up, I did a little map, I lined up my symptoms and when they kicked in,'cause my first, uh, concussion was in 2002 in Switzerland. And then about 10 years, 12, I started having, I hit red flags the whole time, but nothing too, things I can minimize and I would think about too much. But in 2012, they kicked in strong. And then around 2018 to 20, they were just kicking my butt where I just couldn't deny it anymore. And, and so my thing is like, head injuries don't get diagnosed. They don't get treated at all. You know, they always tell you, hit your head, don't go to sleep. That, that's it. That was the treatment. Mm-hmm. So I promise you, you've probably been misdiagnosed and he probably is dealing with a concussion from that car accident. That's what my gut tells me, because nobody gets that diagnosis at 40. No, nobody, I've never seen it. Never.

Sarah:

That makes sense. That is wild and scary. Very scary.

Will:

Yeah. It, it really is. It really is. Yeah.

Chris:

Great. Will, can you, can you just give us a, a brief description of, of, of your story. Tell us how, tell us how, tell us how you ended up on the bobsled team.

Will:

Well, since you guys like the comedy side, I'm gonna tell you the truth.

Chris:

Yes. I love it.

Will:

I got on the bobsled team because this guy tricked me. It tricked me. I was training at Utah at the time, at uh, Brigham Mill University, and uh, I was a sprinter long jumper, so I'm one of the fastest Americans in the state at the time. So right on, right, right before the 2002 won Olympics in Salt Lake, they had, uh, open tryouts for Bob State team. So my phone started ringing and I'm just like, nah, I don't wanna try. That looks stupid, that look like dangerous. I don't wanna do it. And when I was a kid, they played this thing on tv. It was called, uh, wide World of Sports. It was the Agni of defeat. So it was always this guy skiing and he, he gets all mangled up and you see the pops, they crash. Come right after that. So I remember that as a kid. I was like, I don't wanna do that. But it was my last, probably last year or so, going to be a track and field athlete. I was about 28 years old and at that time I was doing football movies like Jeremy Maguire. Any given Sunday I was doing like, uh, they put a uniform on me and liked to watch me run fast and. Make, make, make the actors look like, make Cuba look like a real football player. That that's what we did. You know? And so I'm doing that stuff and um, God, I apologize guys. This is part of my issue when I start talking, like sometime I'll just, like, where did I start this thing at? And you might have to bring me back. What was the question? I apologize. This is like, this is the issue right here. This is the, no, we're here for

Chris:

it. It's fine. Yeah, yeah. We're, we get it? Uh, a little bit. We asked you to tell us how you ended up on the team. Okay,

Will:

got it. Got it. Yeah. So anyway, this guy, they called me up for this tryout. It's being covered by a show called Go For the Gold on NBC. And I said, well, maybe I'll get a sponsor outta this. So I went up for the tryout, didn't really want to do it, but I saw the first 30 people do this tryout. They took this, uh, treadmill and they put it like on the highest elevation. So it's steep, it's hooked up to this computer. And so it punch in 10 miles an hour. And the faster I run on this thing, the more pressure I apply, the quicker I get to 10 miles an hour. So I do that. When I finished the guy, his eyes were like this big. So I did either really good or really bad. I didn't know which one. So remember, NBC's covering this, all these hot lights are on me. He puts his arm around me. He's like, Hey, brother, if I, if I offer you$50,000 for the next three months, would you raise some of my Bob Slit team? And at that time, I owned a youth treatment facility. So I'm a business guy. I was a business guy back then. So I gave him the educated answer, well, if it's a fair price, if not, we can renegotiate later. But in the back of my head, I'm like, 50 grand for three months, please. Right this. Write my check right now. Now, the ironic part is on my first day at the track, we get up there, one of my teammates from college sees me getting off the truck with the bobsled. He said, man, I've been trying to call you. I've been trying to call you. Get come on our team. So then this new driver, he panics. He's like, Hey, wait a minute. Don't leave me. I'm gonna get you more money, something. I'm gonna get a real big paycheck. The ending to that story is. Most of our bobsleds were shaped, they built by NASCAR back then, so they're shaped like race cars. This guy's sled was shaped like a spaceship. It had a bubble on it. So no matter how fast I pushed that sled, the women were beating us to the bottom of the hill. Like we weren't gonna win anything. I found out he didn't have any sponsors, he didn't have any money. And by the time I realized that on the first couple days, I wound up getting picked up by a beer team and I raced in the Americas Cup race that first week. So that, that trial was on a Wednesday. But that next Wednesday, Thursday, I was racing. I won a medal. NBC ran that story, and it was just fun. It was different. And I just stuck around for, you know, nine more years. So that's how I got into the sport. The guy, he tricked me. He really tricked

Sarah:

me. He corrected me.

Will:

Yeah. That sport was, you know, it costs you money. You don't, you don't make money. It costs you money. Yeah.

Chris:

Oh, that is, that's that. I love that story. I love it. I, and I am, um, one of those people that loves the Olympics. Like I, I am religious about watching it. I don't care what the sport is. I got into curling for a bit. I'm like, the, the curling is the best sport. Like Yeah, well, or, uh, I mean after, after Bob's sledding.

Will:

Okay. I, I prefer Curly now, so I was gonna say, I'm, I'm still going through with Curly Day. Yeah.

Chris:

But, but that is like, I, I've always, always been curious about it. So tell us, um, tell us how you got, how, tell us how you got hurt.

Will:

Well, that's where the dilemma comes in. That's one reason why I filed a class action. Nobody was talking. There was suicide. After suicide. There was, uh, people getting sick, Parkinson's, and oh man, nobody's talking. And I'm thinking like, no, we are not gonna do this. I'm not gonna keep burying friends. And then we get together and pretend like, oh, poor guy. You know? And so it was kinda like. I don't actually know the truth because what, there's a lot of, uh, different parts of this thing. Like we know about the concussions from crashing. I also now know, like every time we went down that track, if there was vibrations on there, we would get micro concussions, which is almost every time you go down that track. So I was getting a concussion every time I went down that track. Pretty much. Now the big concussions are better because they make you sit down. You can't do anything. Like my first real concussion was in St. Mar, Switzerland. Like I couldn't walk straight for a week, like I had vertigo. And so, you know, you can't go again, you know, but when you have the micro concussions, it's doing the same damage, but you could still function as normal. So you could, you just kind of keep doing what you're doing so you're not getting that rest. And that's why they're the most dangerous.'cause you don't sit down. And I probably, I went down that track between one to six times per day, three or four days a week, sometimes five days a week. I did that for four to five months of the year for nine years. So I literally have hundreds and hundreds of, uh, trips down that track. So it's, um, and then there was another piece of that thing when we were, when I was racing, we had these people, we call'em forerunners. So we'll come out, they'll get a test sled, we'll send'em down the track, they'll get the notar taking the trip to the bobsled, and we'll have somebody test our TI system. So it's usually VIP people, like celebrities or, but this one time we took fighter pilots. They're the only people on the planet that pull the same GForce as us. Like you, you see'em flying this way, the next thing you know, they're going the other way. So that's what the bobsled does. Yeah. We going, you know, here, the next thing we do, those faint turns. And so what it does, it takes all the blood from your head and it just shoots it throughout your body. So a lot of people black out on that or faint or whatever. And so when we took the fighter pilots down, now remember they pull, we're supposedly pulling five G'S max, the fighter pilots pulling her between 12 to 15. I've heard different numbers in there. So, but when we took'em down that track, when they got out the slid, they were shook up and I was like, wait a minute, I took six rides that day. You took one. Why are they shook up like that? So there was an article that came out by the New York Times in, uh, December of 2024. And all the pilots have the same issues as the bobsleds. So it's the G forces. It's the G forces. So now take the G forces that's killing our fighter pilots. Now it's killing the bobett. And then take that same bops letter and bang his head against the ice and concuss him. So it's the perfect storm for just like destruction. Yeah. Which I didn't know when I started this sport.

Sarah:

Well, who does, like, I I, this is what I don't understand because I obviously didn't know any of that until I started reading about you and I was reading about the fighter pilots and the, the mini concussions that you guys suffer constantly, basically. Nobody knows about this shit. Why are we still doing this? Like why? Maybe that's a naive question, but why are we still letting people get in these sleds?

Will:

Because they rather try to buy you off. Which I won't allow right. Than to speak up. So, and that other part that I forgot to tell you about it was what the G-Force is. Wait a minute. It was, um, okay. Fighter pilots 12 to 15 Gs, right? We're supposedly pulling five. Space shuttle is internet says is three. But that don't make sense to me. How could space shuttle do three Gs? We actually, there's an article out called Sled Head and in that article they tested some of the tracks and one of the tracks they tested was in Canada there were spikes of 84.5 Gs 84. So if our fighter pilots were blacking out, well they're used to 12 and they're blacking out with us now. I know why. So nobody's connecting these stories. I'm only connecting it'cause I was there. Nobody else really listening to hear this story. Like I'm the only one talking about it because I found that article. Yeah. Now this is the ironic part. I challenge you to go to the New York Times website and find that article. You'll find the old link, you click on it, it won't work. They scrubbed it from the net. Who did it? I don't know. But if you want it, I can give it to you. Because I wrote to the Arthur, the person who wrote it, and he sent it to me directly, so I have it.

Chris:

I would love a copy of that. But they

Will:

scrubbed it from the internet. Yeah. They also did an article episode on us on uh, HBO Real Sports. Now go back to that website, HBO, you can find every episode they've ever done, but you won't find the bops level anymore. So where did that one go? I, you know, I can't make this stuff up. It's just,

Chris:

that is wild.

Will:

Yeah.

Becca:

I'm so surprised about though, is the fact that like Ct E is in football and that's even still like a huge issue, but it's like, I feel like Bob setting is very. Very niche in a sense of like, I'm not a high school kid, being like, let me go on my bobsled team. Yeah. So I'm just very surprised that they're trying to erase it instead of like bringing it to light because not many people know about this. It's just, yeah.

Will:

And, and the other thing is in court, one thing I told them that is non-negotiable'cause I'm a lead plaintiff, so I only I can sign off on the offers that come through. I said, the one thing that is not negotiable, you have to warn the new generation before they start the sport. It's too late for me. You guys tricked me. You tricked all of my teammates. I've seen people get tricked. Every party came up there, got tricked the same way I said, that has to stop. And so they're fighting me on that right now on the wording of what that sounds like. And I'm like, absolutely not. I'm not signing off on that. And so like right now, my last three court hearings, it was literally my lawyer, the Olympic team's lawyer and Olympic team on one side. And it is me by myself standing like this. No. And even I had court yesterday. Same thing. Same thing. So yeah, they've done every bully tactic they can to get rid of me and, and get me to sign off. And I said, you're not gonna bully me. Like you've already killed me. You're not gonna bully me.

Sarah:

Like, like you said, you're there by yourself. The, the, your lawyers on the other side. Do you have like, no one is coming out from the bobsled community to, to back up to help you either. Like

Will:

the, the athletes were standing with me'cause they're all sick.

Sarah:

Yeah, they're

Will:

all sick. But I'm the only one that living, I'm the only one that's around this area in Los Angeles. So they're not flying in for court and stop. I

Chris:

think, I think this is a lot like you see the, the same things. It's, it's money and it's tradition. Right? Like the, the us the US Olympics is, is a business. Yeah. It's, it's represents the patriotism and, and nationalism and all that, but they're still there to make money. Yeah, we still have operating costs that they have to cover. They're, they're there to make money and it's tradition, right? Like, why would I, I'm the bobsled coach. I still have to put a product out there. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna jeopardize that by saying Yeah, we're so sorry. Yeah. We should probably tell it's the same thing in football, it's the same thing in, even Sarah and I both have children that, that play fairly competitive sports. And it's the same thing. Like we're, we're not talking about concussions, we're not talking about these kids specializing in a single sport way early. Like

Will:

Yeah. Because

Chris:

those clubs are there to make money and Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that's part of it. That's part of why we continue to, to, that's why people continue to play and watch football. That's why people continue to play and watch these other sports is because it's tradition and there's money to be made there. And we live in a society that really values that.

Will:

And one thing that I've noticed, uh, the sad part is exactly what you said about the money is a hundred percent. That's why they're fighting me so hard on this. But when it comes down to the little league, like the little kids playing, that's not about money. Some people might make a, some coaches might make a little bit of money doing that, but sometimes those are the worst people who be coaching.'cause those are usually guys, they have such a passion for the sport, but they need to make the college team, they probably didn't make their high school team. Yep. They definitely didn't go pro. So they, they come in with a whole nother level of that. What's, what's a good word? Like, you know, they wouldn't say fans, fanatics, they're fanatics. Right. So they're out there teaching them the kill, you know, you knock that person. And one thing I hear'em say a lot, um, around that sport is like, you know, knock their, knock their, well since you cuss a lot, they be saying, knock their dick in the dirt.

Sarah:

There you go. So,

Will:

yeah. That's really what, you know, that's what I'm yelling at Owen's

Sarah:

next soccer game.

Will:

Just kidding. Just

Sarah:

kidding.

Will:

Exactly. Now you have to be careful. Soccer is the number one sport for CTE now.

Sarah:

Yeah, I was actually, I was just talking to Owen about it. Owen is my son, and he asked something and I was like, well, I have an interview tonight. And I was telling him a little bit about you will. And, um, I was like, it's, you know, it's, we hear a lot about it at NFL level, but we don't hear about it in other sports. And I said, it's super, it's super common with soccer players and nobody talks about it. And esp especially like our kids, every time one of those kids goes up to head the ball or they go up in the air together, my heart sinks. Like, I'm like, like, yeah, it's, but yeah, it's super, I mean. Christine, I don't know if you remember one of the World Cups or whatever. Abby Wambach went up for a header and collided and came down with blood all over her face. Like they wrapped, they wrapped that girl up and sent her right back in. You get back in there. Wow. Yeah. You get back in there.

Chris:

Well, yeah, I mean, it's the, it's the same thing like, uh, well, and I don't know if you can, if you would talk about this for us, when, when you're on, when you're on a competitive team and when you are, when you're in the fight like that, like, and Abby Womack's a good, a good example. Like, yeah, you probably should sit out after you bash your head against somebody else and spew blood. But we are as athletes conditioned to be like, I'm fine. I wanna play at all costs. Right. And our coaches are conditioned to like, we wanna win at all costs. So can you talk about what it was like to, to, you know, get injured? Yeah. And then take yourself out or be like, no, no, I'm good. Let's go.

Will:

Well, that happens to, like all of us, for example, my, one of my, uh. My first World Cup crash was in, uh, St. Mary Switzerland. It was, um, about a month before the 2002 Winter Olympic Games, and it was a really nasty crash. Matter of fact, the guy in the sled with me, one of the guys that sled with me, he was knocked unconscious and, um, while he, like, they had to really wake him up. And so they sent us back to the hotel and what they told us was, watch each other. Make sure you don't go to sleep. So is the guy who's under unconscious supposed to watch me, right. Or am I, or the guy with the vertical who can't sit up in the bed with a room spin is supposed to watch him watch each other. So yeah, it's almost like they really sent us back there to, to die, really, you know? And that's just kinda what the sport is. Another World Cup I went to was in Alburg, Germany. We went down that track and we crashed. We went back to the top, went down again, crashed me again. Within an hour was doubt I was out. I should not have been back in that sled. And then they wanted me to go a third time. I was like, no, again, we gotta alternate for a reason. Bring the alternate over. I I, I can't do this again. You know? But it, the thing is there's a bully. It was always a bully mentality. Yeah. You're not tough enough to get back out there. Yeah. But also what I noticed with the athletes and, and I'm connecting the dots now, like when you concussed you don't have the ability to, to sometimes say, I should not go again, or I can't go again. Right, right. Like, if you really, really concussed, you can't make that decision. Mm-hmm. And you should not be making that decision. You shouldn't

Sarah:

decision have to. No.

Will:

Yeah. You usually shouldn't have. They should be automatically. Mm-hmm. You're out. You know, and I, and that's sad to say,'cause you know, we put in so much hard work and time to lose, to lose our, you know, our race stuff to somebody who else made a mistake. But it's either you wanna live with live or you wanna, or you wanna fade outta here the, the hard way, like the rest of us. So that's, that is the hard part. Like, I just think that. They need to do better with stopping this stuff and making it and all, all the sports. Not just, not just

Chris:

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Like it's a, you know, I just listened to maybe six hours of a podcast about CTE and Wow. Well, it was a, it was about like some of the pro athletes that have, well, pro football players that have just really kind of, uh, gone off, gone off the rails and, and done some horrific things to, to either themselves or or to their, yes. To, to their friends and it, you know. Talk to us a little bit about what it's like to live with CT sort of in your, in your daily life. Like you've, you've shown us a little of like, yeah, I gotta go back and pick up the conversation thread when I drop it. What, what else is the, the impact of living with CTE? What's it like? Can I, oh, I'm

Sarah:

sorry. I just wanna add onto that kind of start with. What, what happened, what started and what really made you say, wow, this is what I've got going on and I really need to, I really need to figure this out. And, and what's the daily life like? And what was the last push that made you say, voice needs to be heard and I'm gonna be the one who's gonna be it?

Will:

Well, the starting with, I had, I had red flags when I was still competing. And the, and the truth of it is like, I didn't know what it was. For years I thought I was becoming diabetic because I had these moments where I, it was random days of cloudish random. They were very random, you know? Then it went from random days of cloudiness to random days of clarity. And it was a slow progression. I didn't, I didn't see it coming, so I thought I had low blood sugar and I know people like that, and that's diabetes. So 15 years, I'm going to see doctors every year. Okay, can I at least get my insulin, you know, prescription this year so I can move on with my life? And they're checking me and they were like, you don't have diabetes? And I'm like, that's impossible. I tried to explain to them, and you know what, all the doctors did the same thing. They checked my blood, they never checked my brain. And so they allowed me to just walk through life. And it got a little bit worse, a little bit worse. And then one day, um, I was in my apartment and in LA and one of my old teammates called me, PA Vic. And uh, he wanted to be a writer, right? And I was writing shows in LA at the time, I was documentaries or, or reality stuff, and a couple scripts here and there. So I would give him ideas. So he's calling me with these brilliant ideas. I'm like, wow, that's so out the box. I, that's brilliant. You know, I was giving ways to kind of spruce it up so we can, you know, get it made. And, and then, uh, I just connected these dots over the last few weeks. So this was prior to 18 when he was calling me. And so now what I know is his mind was slipping, the stuff he was telling me. They were so weird and creative, what I thought was creative writing. It wasn't creative writing. His mind was slipping because the very next time he called me, he was speaking ish. Like, rah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, it was something weird like that. And I was like, what? He got so frustrated. He hung up the phone. And, um, like I used to own treatment facility. I've worked in a few of'em. I've run some really big ones. Mental, mental health is my background. So I told myself every single day, I gotta get him some help. I gotta get him some help. And the truth is, I didn't do anything to help him at all. I just sat in my apartment every day saying that someone called me. I got the word that, uh, he went to his family's factory, and, uh, he hung himself. And, uh, I felt guilty. I felt responsible.

Chris:

Yep. Yeah, we, we, we talk to people a lot who kind of go through the, who kind of go through the same thing. I'm very sorry that that happened. And, um, I know it's, it doesn't, it doesn't. Help for me to say it, but you can't blame yourself for these things.

Will:

Absolutely. Oh, two things happened. His autopsy came back and we found out he was in stage four. So that was nothing I could have done that was gonna help him. But this is where it gets really weird. When I was in my apartment saying I gotta help this guy, every day I was literally crawling on the floor in my own apartment. Like I was struggling. I had take the mattress off of my bed, put in the living room, and I so I can crawl to the kitchen, I can crawl to the restroom. You know, if I need to get out the house, I can crawl to that front door if I needed to on that day. And so I couldn't help him'cause I needed help.

Sarah:

Right. And

Will:

then that's when I started asking questions and um, found out it was all my teammates, it was everybody I spoke to, same stuff. Uh, but the ironic part is when I called my teammates, they all said the same thing. Oh, I'm doing good. It didn't get me all the symptoms missed me. I said the same thing, you know, and, and I just let'em talk for a little bit. Then I start hearing all the weird stuff that's going on in their life of things that they've done and like, what? And I was like, no, buddy, I'm thinking you're not okay. Mm-hmm. So that's when I started calling for help. And, um, and that's what took us to court. And that's why we're there now. Still there now. Yeah.

Becca:

Absolutely. And then going off of, um, you being in court, from what I've read, they just want to advise and check up on kids versus actually being like, Hey, here's what you're getting into. Right? Yeah. Like that, that just feels weird. Well, well will

Chris:

it, if, do you, do you mind if I jump in? I don't wanna, please do,

Will:

please do

Chris:

I jump in? But it, it, like, going back to the, to the, to the money factor. One of the commissioners of football, and I forget the exact statistic, but one of the commissioners in football, Becca, when they're, when they're talking about CTE. Was like, all it would take is 10% of the football parents to be like, yeah, we're not gonna let my kid play to completely destroy the entire sport. And that is a sport that practically every boy plays. Now imagine what that's going to do to bobsledding. Imagine what that's going to do to soccer. Soccer. This is the, I mean, and the, again, the, the US Olympic team is a, is a business. The NFL is a business. They're like, well just, we'll just tamp it down. And like, it is the, it is one of the saddest things that, that I can think of that you would let people jeopardize their children's brains in order to perpetuate a tradition. Like, it, it, it's upsetting on a fundamental level. It's

Sarah:

fucking infuriating. I mean, infuriating. No, like. Fuck is wrong with people. Sorry. It just, it's, it's Madden. I, I wanted

Will:

the same thing.

Sarah:

It's Madden. I can't

Will:

believe they're, yeah. I can't even believe they're still fighting me on it. Like if you really fight me on one of the new generation, like really, like who the hell are you to do something like that?

Chris:

That is wild.

Will:

Yeah. And I'll tell you the wild part as of now, like I said, I had court yesterday. It's all the lawyers including mine, standing together versus me. And I have no law experience. I don't, I struggle. I, I'm cloudy, I still have cloudy days. I still have days where I'm just not all dirty, be doing certain things. Some days my speech is still a little bit slurred, but I'm doing way better than where I was like at one point, like every day was a bad day. Like I could let it, no such thing was a good day. Every day I prayed for death. Every day I just ask God, just please don't wake me up. I couldn't kill myself'cause my, I don't hurt my family or my friends. And because I was a counselor, all these things that I taught these hundreds of people over the years about suicide, like I had this saying that I taught people and it's like, and it went like this, if today is a good day for suicide, tomorrow will also be a good day. So it always gets me to the next day. So I, I always taught that. So as I'm struggling and I want to end this thing so bad and I'm just thinking like, I can't destroy my family with this, but if I go in my sleep, I'll be okay. And I just pray and just, God just come and like, and I hate to even say this part here, but I had an uncle who, he went for a physical at work and yearly physical, I'm sorry, you one more thing. Tongue sometime may just slur it just, yeah, it's gonna do what it does. Do it. I used to be so embarrassed I wouldn't talk to people, but

Sarah:

No, no. My

Will:

uncle, he went into this yearly physical. And the doctor was like, you know, Mr. Winterton, are you okay? You feeling okay? He's like, yeah, I feel great. He said, you on stage four pancreatic cancer. And my uncle, he just died like quick. It was quick. And so I was, here I am praying for pancreatic cancer. Who, who pays, who prays for cancer? This guy was,'cause I, man, I was like, just get me outta here.

Sarah:

You were hurting. Yeah. And you were, you were hurting bad. So, so how did you get from that to where you are now?

Will:

Well, uh, Joe Namath.

Sarah:

Okay.

Will:

Joe Namath, old football guy. Uh, I, let me take that back. Football guy, I don't mean to disrespect him at all. He, uh, put out some videos and in the videos he said he reversed his CTE symptoms by using hyperbaric oxygen. And that was really nothing for me to try. If you look up, if you look up ct, you see all the devastating stuff. You don't see anything about how to help. Mm-hmm. And so I said, what have I got to lose? So I went and tried it and the crazy part is. Most time I wear these glasses, they're slightly tinted. I dunno if you can really see that or not. A little bit. Yeah. But they're tinted like at the top. So I'm sensitive to light smells and sound. So I get in this chamber, I'm in there for one hour. I get out, I grab my glasses and I go, I do this, and I take'em off. And I just kept doing that for a while. And then a salesman comes over, he said, what's wrong? And I was like, I don't know, they don't think I need my glasses. And he was like, oh, you one of those. And I was like, okay, here's the salesman. Come, he is about to sell me now. And uh, he was right. But no, he, he was really right. Some people get immediate relief and some people need like 30 days of two a day for 30 days to get that same relief. But for me it's pretty instant. So all of a sudden I went outside and I looked, the skies were extra blue. I don't think I was seeing colors for a while. I'm not really sure. Yeah. But everything was so vivid. And then I went home that night. I laid down, remember waking up about seven o'clock or nine o'clock, I don't forget what time it was, whatever. One of my migraines came back, hadn't had one in a while, so I'm thinking, oh my God, this chamber really, maybe it was a bad idea. And then I woke up in the morning. I still had that migraine, but it was going down. But as it was fading out, my cloudiness was gone and I was clear for six days and I was like, whoa. I said, maybe it was just a fluke or placebo. I went back the next week, did it. I was clear for nine days and I was like, oh my God, you know? And then, but the, this is where the scary part come in now I need$20,000 to buy a chamber for my home. And so before I could even raise the money, I had already faded all the way back. Like I had never had treatment before. I was cloudy. I laid in that floor, I was ready to pass again. Mm-hmm. And uh, my dad stepped in and he was like, wait a minute. That thing was helping you. Here's the money. Go get the machine, because he kept trying to help me. I was like, nah, I don't, I don't know. I get it. I'll move somebody around later. Next thing you know, I was, I was gone again, I was out. But when that machine showed up, man, it's, it's just saved me. So I, I keep one in my back room and I, I started out doing like five days a week. Now I just make sure I, at least three days a week. But for me, some people get that permanent relief. I, I don't, I don't get that. Like if I go a month without it, I go backwards. But I also had hundreds and hundreds of concussions on me. Yeah. I don't know if that's the reason. Some people say if I use a higher pressure chamber, it'll be different. It'll get better. So I just, I did one last week and there is a difference, but I'm gonna go back and do a few more and see if it makes a huge difference.

Becca:

What is hyperbaric, hyperbaric, hyperbaric, hypobaric. What? Is that, I was gonna say, because on your GoFundMe, you're looking at a four chamber one, but it sounds like you have a solo chamber. So what is the process? Yeah, what does that look? It's a four

Sarah:

chamber. Like you stick four people in there and do you have a, lemme see

Will:

if I

can

Will:

take you guys. Hyper bear party, your podcast. Lemme do this. I'm going to see if I'll take you guys to it about that. This is so funny. Oh my gosh. I've never done this before. So

Becca:

trip, field trip.

Will:

Your bedroom is junky. Don't be, don't laugh at me.

Becca:

We don't judge. That's alright. I'm recording from my mom's basement right now. So Becca, that's the time of life.

Will:

I can't flip the camera around, so I'll do this. Okay.

Becca:

Okay.

Will:

This is what my camera looks like,

Becca:

looks interesting.

Will:

So I climb in where these is like, those are zippers at the top. Yeah. Let me see. I climb in up here. Uh, right there. It's like the middle of the top climbing through there. It has a bunch of windows on it so you don't get claustrophobic or anything like that. This thing's about eight, nine feet long and um, this is the machines that drive it. Wow. This one here pushed the pressure in it dehydrator moisture from going in there and then that's an oxygen concentrator. A lot of'em don't come with that, but if you ever had long COVID, that's what that thing is for. Like it'll help you. That's all the machines they were looking for to when COVID was around, they couldn't find them. Wow. It's those type things. Yeah. So if you have long COVID, that thing will kind of help you turn that stuff around quick.

Becca:

Oh my gosh. That is not what I thought they were going to look like at all. Thank you for showing us.

Will:

They got different kinds, but that's what the soft chamber is. That's what they all look like. They got different ones that shape where you can take like a, um, a wheelchair in'em. They got different ones, shaped different ways for people with different medical conditions.

Sarah:

Can you go in there and just take a nap? No.

Will:

Do you know what? I was so weak when I got that thing. Every time I got in there I was sleep.

Sarah:

Yeah, I feel like that's what I would do. I would just cocoon myself in there and just take a nap.

Will:

It seems like, I'll be honest, like for a while it became a chore, so, yeah. And I was so depressed because like Joe Na said, he got permanent relief. I saw other people who said they got permanent relief, so why does mine wore off? And I was like, I was so sad sometime, and I just didn't want to get in there sometime. And I saw a gentleman, he lived in his, his thing, it's a thing shaped like that, called a, I think it was two people, like with polio and things like that. He lived in that thing for 57 years. Mm-hmm. And I saw a video on him. He just, he passed last year. He died last year. But he had such a great attitude and I, I looked at myself and I was like, well, you go in there for one hour to 90 minutes max, shut the hell up. You're blessed to have it. Stop complaining. Get in there, you know. But I do hope to be one-on-ones who get that permanent leave one day.

Sarah:

So the permanent relief, like did they have to do it for a certain amount of time and then the permanent relief comes, or was it like instantaneous? I guess I'm asking like exactly what is permanent relief so they never have to go back in one again, ever.

Will:

Well, there's two parts to that. Some people who said it, they uh, they never have to use it again. Then also there's these people that told me they have permanent relief and I listen to them talk sometime and I'll start hearing a red flag and I'm thinking maybe you should get back in there. But yeah, I try not to really meddle too much when it comes to that. But yeah, I, I've seen both sides of it. Some people get that permanent relief, they never have to get back in there again. And there's some who say they have it, but they probably need to get back in there again.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Will:

Uh, and usually I think it's around 120 hours is they do sessions of 40 sessions in groups of three. You know, for me I'm probably 540 hours or 30 hours inside my chamber already.

Sarah:

So

Will:

I've been doing this since 2022. And, um, like I said, it, it keeps me off the edge. I don't, uh, yeah, it keeps me from going back to the dark place. Yeah. Yeah. And then I can talk as long time I, I could barely talk. I was struggling when, you know. Yeah.

Becca:

So That's awesome. Oh, go for it. I'll let you go.

Sarah:

The, the four chamber, I'm interested in the four chamber. What's a four chamber look like?

Will:

Uh, man, it's, most of the, the four chambers are all gonna be made out of me.

Sarah:

Okay.

Will:

Looks like a Disney ride or something.

Sarah:

Okay.

Will:

You Google it, you'll, you'll see a bunch of different ones and so yeah, that just a four chamber. So'em have like these reclining chairs in there. You have four people going there at once. That's it. Cool. Yeah. They just, yes. No different than that. It's just shaped different. And they have, if you have the metal ones, then you can do a higher pressure, which means you can, the, the oxygen gets a little bit more concentrating deeper into the body. For example, a lot of people with cancer, they put'em through there'cause cancer doesn't like oxygenated areas.

Sarah:

Okay,

Will:

so new doctors, old school, not so much, but the newer doctors, they'll send their patients in there before treatment, before chemo or radiation during treatment, and then when they get out, because it kinda helps break down everything.

Sarah:

So speaking of doctors, do you have any doctors on, like, I'm assuming with the court case you have doctors who are, what's the word? What's the word I'm looking for? Not reporting on, but like, uh, yeah. Who were sharing their expect expertise with the courts and whatnot. Do you have specific doctors that are working with you?

Will:

At one point, my lawyers had, uh, people would do like a re do reports, you know, they'll do reports and the truth is, I don't know what happened. I, uh, I gotta make sure I even see it so I don't slam it.

Becca:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hundred percent, however, and you worry, I can also edit it to make it look like you don't slander anybody.

Will:

Perfect man. I just tell the truth, like they were fighting for us and all of a sudden they weren't. Matter of fact, they told me this case was always only about monitoring. And so I went through my emails and I pull up, and they even said this in court. And so I pull up the emails out and I showed'em right here. This paper says you going for medical monitoring and care for life? I told the judge this just yesterday. I said, there is no care anywhere inside this offer. They have. They really wanna just monitor us and watch us document us dying. That's what, if we participate in this, that's what they're gonna do. And so, yeah, that's, yeah, I, you know what, in the beginning people told me about all the conspiracy things that could happen with a case like this, and it all happened man, and uh, um, and I keep receipts. So everything they been saying to me like I, you know, like I, like now, I don't take any phone calls from my lawyers. If you wanna contact me, put it in writing.'cause there's a disconnect somewhere and I wanna see where it is. And, and they tried to make it look like it was me because of my, um, yeah. Memory issues and stuff and my condition. But I pull out the receipt, Hey, didn't you guys send me this email? They still haven't responded to that email, by the way. And so yeah, that's what we dealing with. So all of a sudden, like, I'm, like I said, I'm literally fighting all the lawyers by myself, man. Yeah. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me. Yeah. Remember I made a promo video today. I sent it out to everybody. I could send it out to asking for help. That's why this shirt is on that I've never worn this shirt in 30 years, 20 years. I put this on only to make that video about an hour ago. And uh, yeah.'cause this is the first time I'm going on there just asking for, we need lawyers. Uh, they hired the, yeah, Olympic team hired some really powerful lawyers and how can I take these guys on by myself? I've been so far successful every, the last three times I've been successful. Everything that's been going on. But eventually it's not, I'm not gonna be able to do it'cause I don't speak law and they're going to say something that I can't respond to. Uh, then what I, we're gonna lose this case because I can't,'cause I don't know law. Like, no, that's, that should not how this supposed to happen.

Sarah:

Keka, you might have this stuff already, like your social media stuff that we can share as well with as many people Absolutely. As we can.'cause that's what this is all about. That's we wanna get

Will:

Yeah.

Sarah:

The word out to as many people as we can and, and do what we can to get you more help. I mean,

Will:

absolutely.

Chris:

We're, we're, we're all about awareness and talking about things in. A lot of, a lot of what I hear about, about CTE is, is more about, oh, well the only way we can really diagnose it is if we, if you, if you do pass and we can, we can look at your brain, but there's so many, there's so many common symptoms. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I get that. Like the only way to really diagnose Alzheimer's is to look at your brain too. But we diagnose that all the, all time. The time.

Will:

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

Chris:

I think that, that they can really see it in the brain. Like that's when they can, that's when they can define what, what stage. But you see it in, in sort of case after case. Like, uh, we all live in Pittsburgh, so one of the most, uh, one of the most famous cases is Mike Webster. He was a,

Will:

yeah.

Chris:

The center for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Right. So he, frankly, the last couple years of his life were just. Terrible, terrible. And you know, but you can see the decline in a lot of, a lot of the subjects where they do end up passing away and they, and they do take a look at their brain. There should be a way that we can, we can say, Hey, this is, this is CTE and there should be a way that we can look out for high risk patients and say, Hey, if you let, if your kid played sports, like Olivia's had maybe like four or five con concussions. Olivia's my daughter, she plays college soccer now four or five concussions. So she's kind of a little bit more at risk. Plus she already has some mental health issues. Like there should be a way that we can kind of at least increase awareness and be like, look out for these things.'cause then these are gonna be your, these are gonna be your people who are high risk and these are gonna be your people who, where you could intervene and not necessarily cure it or, or whatever. But you could at least have some sort of intervention to say, Hey, you know, I know you're going through it, but let's try this. Let's try this, let's try this. The only way you can like. The only way you can effectively go after a cure is if you admit that people have this disease and you can diagnose people with it.

Will:

Yeah. My question, what, when was your daughter's like, uh, first concussion?

Chris:

Probably 10 or 11.

Will:

10 or 11. When did her, when did her, uh, mental health issues start?

Chris:

Um, probably around the same time though. Like 10 or 11.

Will:

About 10 or 11.

Chris:

Yeah.

Will:

What was it before the concussion or?

Chris:

No, they were, it kind of like the, the same time like we really, she was, it's really hard. It was really hard for her'cause she wasn't able to really express what she was feeling. Like. She wasn't able to tell us that she was really sad until she, until she really understood that other kids weren't sad. And I think that, that she could only do that when she was living maybe like fifth or sixth grade, so right around the same time. But her, her suicide attempt was when she was 14. So like four years after that first one.

Will:

Okay. Well, I don't know if you're hearing yourself talk right now that mental health issues show up at the same time as a concussion issue. I'm just maybe

Chris:

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm not, I'm not discounting it. And she's like, she's 20 now, so that puts her like 10 years after that first concussion and yeah, I, I mean, we're seeing a lot of it, you know, she just continues to struggle. So. Yeah. I mean, this is exactly,

Will:

I'll give, I'll give you the guidelines. My first concussion was 2012, I'm sorry, 2002, 2012. That 10 year mark is where things get really, really just, something's kind of awful going on, and then they'll stabilize for a little bit. Then five to six years after that, that is coming in swinging and fighting. That's what I've seen that I've, like, I literally predicted Kanye's car crash. I did a clot system on my board in my bedroom, and I wrote down my issues when it happened and I thought, okay, that was a tenure and this was that year. I did his the same. And then I had my girlfriend look up, when did Kanye's car accident happen? I, I, I particularly to the exact year of his car accident based off of the symptoms and how they, how they work. And I'm seeing this over and over and over. There's patterns here, but if you don't know what patterns you're looking for, you know, it's like, you know, you're just gonna go right over your head. Go right over your head. Yeah.

Sarah:

Right. And just basic, so your

Will:

daughter, go ahead. You should find a hyperbaric oxygen thing for her to try out, because if you look at the new NFL generation, these guys are all starting the, the NFL career with the hyperbaric chamber in their home now. And it's quick. It ain't just gonna go pretty fast. If this is going to turn some of her stuff on. It's quick. It's quick.

Sarah:

So can you find these, like, are there special doctors that have these, or are there places you can find them? Like,'cause it's not like we're gonna go on Amazon and order one, take it for a ride and then send it back. No, take it back to Kohl's.

Will:

Never buy one before you try it. Right now. You should try it and see, see if it works first and then once you see the, the changes or not. Yeah. If you know what you need and then you can make those decisions.

Sarah:

So you can find them through doctors.

Will:

No, no. Where do we, they won't treat

Sarah:

you. Where do we find them to try them?

Will:

Okay. There's, there's two different type of chambers. There's the one, like, there's 14 things hyperbaric. Okay, let me back that up. There's 14 different things that you can treat hyperbaric with.

Sarah:

Okay.

Will:

By insurance standards where insurance will pay for it.

Sarah:

Okay.

Will:

Right. So it's like burns. Bed sores, wounds that won't heal, things like that. However, you have to look for a wellness center. They're gonna have chambers. Those other chambers that they have for the doctors are gonna be like 3.0 in pressure. The other ones you see in, uh, wellness centers, they're gonna be from 1.3 to 2.0. But the 1.31 point is enough to find out if it's going, it's gonna, uh, help. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, like I said, for me it was a one stinking hour. Changed my life. One hour. Yeah. Absolutely. One hour.

Sarah:

I think I wanna try one. Yeah.

Will:

You sure? Yeah. They're pretty good. They're pretty awesome, man. But you love look up wellness centers. Look up, um, HBOT Wellness Centers near me. They're around. They're just kind of hitting in plain sight. And if you're in LA they're, they're all over. Well, a lot of people have'em in their home. They're like the new Fountain of Youth. A lot, a lot of the rich people, they have'em in their. They got these big ones, they got built in their garage. Now I

Sarah:

just need one, like I need one for the, for the poor folks. Now, the, the center that you're working on, and I apologize'cause I probably don't have all the information, I didn't do enough research, so I apologize, but No worries. The center that you are working on creating, that's what you want to do, is create a space for athletes and veterans to come in and do these treatments.

Will:

Yeah. And and it has to be for free. Like my goal, I wanna charge. Yeah. And people's like, man, you got a lot of money, all you do is charge. I'm like, no, the, and I'll tell you the problem is this, that the one piece place let me come the first time. Right. I was six days, no clouds, second time, nine days, no clouds. Now I know it works. So the best way I explain it is what if I was right the first time I needed, uh, I was diabetic, now I need insulin. Mm-hmm. So it's like, I felt like if you were insulin, you need insulin now. You can't afford it. Now what are you gonna do? So I don't wanna do that to other people.'cause that's what happened to me. Yeah. I found out that it worked, then I couldn't afford it. Right. And then like I lay right back in the spot that I came from and I was preparing this to fade back out. I was faded back out if it was my family who stepped up and was like, Hey, wait a minute, let's fix this. You know? So I don't wanna, I wanna make sure I do it for free. I don't want anybody making life decisions where they're going to pay rent or this. And then also, if you're not like me and you don't get the immediate relief, you're gonna need 30 days. Yeah. Of treatment. You're gonna need like tour a day for 30 days. And I just wanna be able to provide that without killing people's families in there in a lifestyle.

Sarah:

Right. 100%. That's, I mean, it always amazes me that some of the shit, most of the shit is not covered. We don't get any help with this shit to make our lives better Like it.

Will:

I mean, because it's not a pill. It's It was a pill.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Will:

You get all the help you want now, you know, they'll package that suck up. Sell it to you. Yeah.

Sarah:

But one thing

Will:

I learned. One thing I learned about this process is, um, like I eventually went ahead and told the doctors everything. Like I'm, I'm just struggling. So they, they gave me a Zoloft Right. And it made things seem 10 times worse. Yeah. 20 times worse. I, I wanted to get outta here so bad. I was, and so eventually after, but I also know like you have to let it build up in your system. So I let it for probably three, four months of it and I was just like, no more. This is just, I'm worse off than when I started this. Mm-hmm. Which is also one thing that I heard in Kanye West, uh, his documentary, he said he had to read between the lines. He was talking about these pills. He don't wanna take these pills anymore. And I was like, aha, those pills are for healthy brains.

Sarah:

So it was making it worse. The brain's not healthy.

Will:

It is. Yeah.'cause they're not designed for compromised burden. We're not healthy. Yeah. Yeah. So if you have these issues and you take the antidepressants, a good chance that you'll get probably more suicidal than when you start it.

Chris:

That's why they put the label on the box for dementia

Will:

patient.

Chris:

Yeah. Like. It's not gonna work the same way. It doesn't, doesn't work the same way when your brain is full of plaque or your brain is full of protein, it doesn't work the same way.

Will:

Yeah. Yeah. And then a question for you. When your daughter had her concussion at 11, what was the treatment?

Chris:

We made her sit out for a little bit until she felt better.

Will:

How long was that?

Chris:

Probably four days. She probably missed whatever practice.

Will:

Okay. So she set out a week. What else?

Chris:

That was it. That was it. And that's

Will:

how I got where I'm at right now.

Chris:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There was no

Will:

treatment for the brain injury.

Chris:

Mm-hmm. No, they don't treat

Will:

it

Chris:

the, the first time. And we're, you know, we, we live in a pretty rural area. I live in a pretty rural area, so we don't have, the first time we actually got her baseline concussion tested was her freshman year at college.

Sarah:

Hmm. You guys didn't have to do that in high school. Owen, they, I mean,

Chris:

that was the first, first thing I did in high school. She went to best center. We didn't, we didn't have to do it. And she was like, I'm fine.

Sarah:

I mean, not saying that we have all our shit together where Owen goes to school, but like, they wouldn't even let the boys on the field unless they have their baseline now. Are they, are they good with, you know, like Owen had a concussion last year and I mean, he, same thing, he was out for like three days and then went back with no limitations and the trainer asked him when he came outta the game, how you feeling? Great. Move on with life. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris:

And I mean that's, that's Olivia's thing too. Like even when she was 10, she was like, I don't wanna miss, I don't wanna be the, I don't wanna be a baby. See my, my kid will

Sarah:

take it. My kid will take advantage. My kid's, my kid. And he'll take advantage of it. He's like, ah, I'll sit this one out. Yeah. Yeah. And then her,

Chris:

her, like one of her concussions, she fell off a golf cart, so she fell off a golf cart and was unconscious.

Will:

Wow. And

Chris:

like two weeks before she went to freshman camp. They were like, well, we really want you, we really want you healthy, so we're gonna make you sit out the first week. And they hadn't done her, she hadn't done her baseline testing yet. They're like, how do you feel? And that's college. So

Will:

yeah. See all those things you're talking about, I'm so jealous.'cause we didn't have that luxury that, uh, stuff was done baseline. Every time I hear about something new like that, I'm just like, what you did? You have what? Like, yeah. It's, I'm glad they're doing these things. Like Yeah. Least there's, that's really what the actions are. There's

Sarah:

some things happening. I mean, I know when we were played in high school, in college, the amount of concussions that we had, holy shit. And nobody, I mean, there was no, no. Rub some dirt on it and get your ass back on the field. Get up, get your shit together and keep playing. Yeah. And end into the goalpost

Chris:

with my face and, you know. Wow. Your, your mom woke me. Well, Sarah and I are sisters, right? So we have the same mom, but we say Your mom, your mom woke me up. You know, at nighttime to make sure I didn't die. And that was, that was the treatment. And I was right back on the field the next day'cause I didn't die. Yeah, yeah,

Will:

yeah,

Chris:

yeah.

Becca:

Yeah.

Chris:

I feel

Becca:

like something too, when it comes to like schools is, there needs to be a difference between like, determination and then like overall like, like you're doing detriment to yourself. Yeah. And I feel like sports are such a blessing and a curse because I loved basketball, but I pushed myself so hard to the point where I couldn't play anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, but then also my coaches were encouraging me and stuff like that. So it's just, it's, it's a crazy world.'cause you wanna Yes. Go out, do your thing, but also, uh,

Sarah:

careful. That's the balance of it all. And that's what sucks about being a parent. I mean, this is, this is my current state. Like, I never wanted to push Owen too hard because I, I played and was burned out. Way earlier than I should have been because I played a lot and I didn't wanna do that to him, and I didn't want him to burn out. So I was real chill with him. But now all of a sudden he's like, wanting to be all competitive. I'm like, well, we kind of missed the train because I, uh, because I didn't push it earlier. So, but it's hard, it's a hard balance to come by

Chris:

looking at the research and will you probably know this, you're a Division one athlete, you were an Olympian, right? Like it's, it's a, it's a. Interesting place to be because you wanna push yourself and you wanna be competitive, and you wanna participate in these sports, and you wanna be the best. But at the same time, there's a, there's a place where you're just pushing yourself so hard. You're getting little teeny mini concussions, and you're going back to the hotel room and you're keeping your teammate awake and you're like, all right, let's get, let's get back out there. But at some point, this is so bad for your, for your mental health. And the, what Olivia told me this year is, this is the first year where they've the trainer and she plays division three soccer. So it, it's slightly different, but still, you know, college athletes. This is the first year that the trainer has some training in mental health counseling Wow. Where they're, they're actually like starting to see that these division one athletes who have been competitive their whole lives and have put all this pressure on themselves and it like lined up their identity. And I, you know, I'm, I'm pretty sure you, you feel this way too, like line up your identity with your sport'cause you've just played it so long and it's just been a part of you where they feel like any failure on or off the field is, is unacceptable. And so they end up doing themselves harm. And this is the first year that the NTA has sort of mandated that the trainers have some kind of training,

Will:

which is good to see. Yeah. You know what, a lot coming because of the, you know, kinda like these cases are coming and they're making mm-hmm. You know, they're trying to be more proactive and, and even protecting themselves at the same time. But now with they're being forced to protect that. When you protect athletes, you're gonna protect yourself, which is amazing still

Sarah:

that we're at the stage where you are being shut down in the way that you are right now with the shit that you're fighting. Like it's amazing that it's 2025 and we know all this shit and it's not like we're making it up. Like this is scientifically proven, this stuff is. Killing us, killing our loved ones. And yet we have people that are gonna continue to fight you. And it's just again, sorry, I keep coming back to, it's just

Chris:

No, I mean,

Will:

well the crazy part is the people fight me the hardest, or some of the people who were most afflicted with it, they were athletes before they became the coach. Mm-hmm. They were athletes before they came in and did come back and started working for the Olympic Federation. So these are some of these guys who were taking their lives were their best friends. Yeah. Right. And they're turning their back on and stabbing them in the back. And I'm thinking like, okay, I expect you to do it to me.'cause I, I wasn't your best friend, but this other guy, these other two guys were like, my driver from the world championship, Stephen Holcomb, when the Olympic team was doing weird stuff to me, he still allowed me to stay with him in his hotel suite because like, like one time we had training camp, uh, it was after the 2003 World Championships. I was his brakeman in the world championships and we all won these cell phone, Verizon cell phones. But we all have the same, same phone number one digit off. So after the 2003 World Championships, we're getting ready for training camp. We normally did that in Calgary, Canada. So I'm getting ready for, where's my ticket, where's my per diem money? Where's, you know, nothing showing up. So I called the Bob Slip team office. They said, oh, we're not gonna fund you. Like what? I'm number one, breaking in the country, maybe number two at the worst. So,'cause at the top two teams race in the world championships the prior few months, which is, I was there, so I paid for myself. I get up there, Steven Holcomb, uh, who also he committed suicide at, at the Olympic Training Center, I think around 2018. So he said, stay with me. You know, so I'm up there. Uh, we, Alexis, we all had the same phone number on my, on my few I was at, I mean, a few days I was up there. Our coach calls a different driver and tells him to tell me that when the federation comes to Canada, they're gonna move us to a new hotel. And then once we move us there, I won't have a place to stay. And the guy was like, I don't know why he's telling me to tell you. I don't know why he didn't call you himself. I said, I don't know. So I called the coach from my phone. He didn't answer. Called again, he didn't answer. I waited later in the day called again, he didn't answer. A few days later, I get that same guy come back to me. He's, I'm uncomfortable. And he gave me that message again. So I called from my phone coach, didn't answer the phone. I called from the other guy's phone. He answered on the first reign. And I, his name is Tuffy Latour. I, I, I never really spoke about this before,'cause when I left the Olympic team, I was so disgusted by some of the treatment I got. Like, I just never spoke about it. And so what I did is I, I called him from when I talked to him from the coach's phone, the coach was like, I said, what's going on? He said, well, each driver only gets like one funded athlete. And I said, toughie, I know the truth. I've been up here for some weeks now. Is that the story you're sticking to? I I get on the phone with him, he says, yeah, we each athlete only each, each driver only gets one athlete funded. And I said, I've been here for weeks, guys. I know the truth. Is that what you're gonna stick to? And he got, he got, oh no. Uh uh, uh, I, I'll see what I can do. So a few weeks later, we moved to a new hotel. They get me a room. No big deal. I didn't get per diem money. They didn't pay for my travels, but they at least gave me a room to stay in while we were in Canada. So I got a new roommate. I recognized that guy the year before. He was the track worker. He was like wiping my sled off and cleaning a track to make sure it was smooth. Nice guy. And I said, Hey, um, I said, was your um, airline ticket, was it expensive? I know you came up at last minute. He was like, no. He said, I went to that first training camp. I finished last, then I got injured. So I was laying around at the Olympic training, sir. And, and Tuffy asked me if I wanted to go to Canada. I was like, hell, what have I got to lose? And I'm thinking like, what the, you know, so that's the kinda stuff I dealt with with those guys. And one other time, it was around the 2006 Olympics. I got to training camp in Canada. Same thing on day number one, I was the fastest push athlete. Day number two, I was fastest. Day number three, the assistant coach comes to me, he says, well, uh, I gotta tell you something, uh, you won't be able to push with the national team anymore because you had a car accident last year and then you didn't have any international races. I was like, is that the only reason? He was like, yeah. I said, you sure? He said, yeah. I said, well, go back and check the records. I came back after that accident. I had 10 races last year, at least 10, but they still kicked me out and other people watching this, like, I'm not, like, there's receipts behind this stuff. So they kicked me out, they made me practice with the women's team, is what I, they made me do. And uh, yeah. And so that's the kind of thing I dealt with these times. It was always something like that. I never knew if it was racism or maybe they just didn't like me. I just, so when I left that sport, like I never really spoke about it.'cause like I left with my tail between my legs after nine years because that's what it was. It was always something like that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I just wanted to put that out there like that. And so the crazy, this is the crazy part is I had totally forgot about how bad they treated me. Athletes were reaching out to me in two, in 2022, they asked me had I seen this new, um, audit that was done. They were audited by a external company. And inside that, um, audit, I can produce these papers for, you wanna see it, it mentions the good old boy system. It mentions the good old boy system. And then it was an update that just came out a few weeks ago and somebody sent me that one and said, the good old boy system is still in there. We trying to get them to fix that. You know, they talk about it that way. The, the auditors and stuff, they said the white athletes and ba black athletes all say the same thing. Now, the black athletes don't get the same treatment as the white athletes. Mm-hmm. So that's kinda what, but you know, I left that sport and with all the memory loss, I totally forgot about it until somebody reminded me because my mental health had gone down so much. Like my memory was wiped.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Will:

And I didn't remember. And I was like, oh my God. Then all these memories started coming back, like, oh, sh I was, I spent nine years with those idiots. Like I must have really had some brain damage, you know? But. But yeah, if you ever wanna see those things, like I, I, I produce receipts, whatever I say, there's something behind it. Yeah.

Chris:

Yeah. I mean, we talk, we talk about that too. I, I mean, we're, Sarah and I both, and, and probably Becca, when, when she, when she becomes a super successful college graduate, like

Sarah:

she is a college graduate and she's super successful'cause she's on this podcast.

Chris:

She's super successful. Sarah, she's recording a podcast in your mom's basement. Okay.

Sarah:

Alright.

Chris:

Alright, go ahead. She has many great things ahead of her. What I'm saying Will, is that Sarah and I both work in these male dominated industries. So we are pretty familiar with the good old boy network. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Sarah:

Yeah. It's a nice, yeah.

Will:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I can

Will:

imagine.

Sarah:

Yeah. It's something else. Oh, we're not done yet.

Will:

You can't leave us now.

Sarah:

Well, what are we doing now? Oh, you have a chihuahua. There would

Will:

be no swearing if you leave. Yeah.

Sarah:

Right. Everybody will be on their best fucking behavior. Well, your Chihuahua story before we wrap up.

Will:

Okay. During COVID, I'm cloudy as crap, but I, well, I found a lake house in the back of the Midwest where my hometown is, and so I buy it. It's peace.'cause at that time when I was outside, like I'm walking, it looked like the ground was doing this in front of me all the time. And so, and I was getting lost in my own community in California, and I was like, I gotta find some more safes. So I bought this four acre property and it's great fish and a hundred yards from the back door. Just peaceful, you know. So, make a long story short, it was winter time I had a fire in the fireplace. And my, one of my girlfriends chihuahuas walks up, she looks in the fire, she sees a big fire there, then she just jumps in there. Yeah, she jumps in there. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Shut the fuck. And if she was in there, like, if it had been about another 10 seconds, would've been more humane. Humane, just to close the door. And, um, so yeah. So it burned off one of her, all her nipples are gone.

Sarah:

Oh,

Will:

one of her feet is missing. One of her, her, she's missing her foot. But she survived it. She survived it. But man, it was brutal. But that dog still does not like me. It allowed me to pull her out the fire, put the fire out on it. It let me feed it when it was sick. And as soon as it got back healthy again.

Sarah:

Now she's like, if I had a middle finger, I'd give it to you. That's what she said.

Will:

Hi. And if I can get her to walk, you can see her limp. Lemme see.

Sarah:

Meow.

Will:

See that?

Sarah:

Aw, good girl. Oh my goodness. Jump in the fire.

Will:

Jump in there with the flames and everything. My Lord. And I got a feeling she'll do it again. I just, my gut tells you she'll do it again. My dear Lord. My girlfriend showed me the pictures. My, I actually had smoke marks on my hand. My goodness. I don't remember reaching in a fire like that. But you just

Sarah:

do it. You just. You just react. Gotta do.

Will:

Geez. I I'm sorry I didn't reach in that fire and she showed me the pictures of my handle locked. You can see the, I don't know how to hit that, but,

Chris:

well, will we, we wish you a lot of luck and Thank you. We'll, we will push awareness and we will, we will push in traffic. I,

Will:

no man, you guys are, you guys are the answers. This is one of the biggest cases in the world right now.

Sarah:

Yeah. World.

Will:

And I promise it's messing with the Olympic rings. It's billions and billions of dollars and they really don't want me still talking about this. Put it that way. Yeah.

Becca:

Well, we'll, so for me, well thank you for coming on it, not letting them silence you. This is incredible. Absolutely. Seriously, this has been one of my favorite interviews. Like my, like I've had goosebumps this whole time.

Will:

I appreciate that. Appreciate that.

Becca:

Absolutely. Yeah. This was one of our baskets.

Will:

Please share my, share my crowdfund together. It's so important. Like, I promise you. Absolutely. Guys, I have one hour in the chamber. It changed my life. I wanna provide the same service. Oh. Check out my TikTok things. I at the, there was a guy who shot people in New York. Um. He's going to the NL office to shoot people. Yes. Mm-hmm. I made a video horn on red on that video, guys. It was the day before my, not my last board hearing, but the one before that I was telling people about that. I said, guys, these are not the people that I fear so much. I said, we had another population we need to treat soon and quick. And I made that video. And then on the courthouse we had court the next day after that court hearing, we was on the court steps. I made that same speech. I said, guys, we got these military people coming back with CTE, the same thing, and they're trained killers now.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Will:

I said, we're gonna have a wave of, uh, military murders. So with CTE shooting, sticking

Sarah:

it. Yeah.

Will:

So after I put that out that day, the following week, a military guy went up to the, the place of Montana and shot off the bar, shot up, killed four people, and he was hiding in the woods for a week. They found him the following week, a guy went up to a army base. He shot up his commander. I think he shot like four or five military people on the base. And then last Sunday. The guy who, uh, burned that church and shot those people in the church was also a veteran. Those are the people. I'm like, this stuff is so, once the mind slips and is gone, and, and so for us to get treatment to these people is so, so important because you can't go to church, you can't go to school, you can't go to the movies. You can't go to a concert without getting shot at, you know? And so we gotta start addressing this stuff before it's just, it's already too late for us. It's already gruesome. People are losing their lives, but it's not that much, it's not that hard. And all these military guys are asking for treatment, but they're being denied. You can't get it, you know? Can't get it. Yeah. And I'm, I'm walking through. I'm the Guinea pig. I'm the Guinea pig.

Sarah:

Well, we will do everything that we can to, to push your, your message out there and help you in any way that we can. You have our email address. Send everything that you, that you can to us, keep us updated. Um, and thanks again, will. It was great meeting you.

Will:

Thank you. And you, this is your daughter. You find your daughter. You find a 1.3, the lowest chamber, the lowest cha chamber is 1.3. They said you could sleep in that thing all night and it won't do damage. Yes, absolutely. The 1.3 is good for the brain. Absolutely. Check with the doctors who set you up. Make sure she's appropriate for her. She's athlete. I'm sure she is. Awesome. Watch her life change and call me back later and I'll be like, ah, there's waiting on you. I'm waiting on you. Trust me. It happens all the time. This you ain't the first. You're not the first. So awesome. I'm waiting lick at my chops. Hope to hear something good from you.

Chris:

Yep, yep. I will definitely keep in touch. Well, welcome guys and.

People on this episode

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Christine Kanalis

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Sarah Leibhart

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