The Mental Funny Bone

Bare Bones Banter: Interview #3 with Michele Capots

• Gaster Girls • Episode 3

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Transformational Coaching and the Power of Resilience with Michele Capots

Join Christine and Sarah on this heartfelt and laughter-filled episode as they welcome transformational coach and international speaker Michele Capots. Michele delves into her personal journey of overcoming mental health challenges and shares profound insights on coaching, resilience, and mental wellness. Learn about her innovative techniques including meditation, tapping, and the Mastery Method. The Gaster Girls also share their personal stories and aspirations, creating a deeply inspirational and emotional narrative. This episode shines a light on the importance of mental wellness, the power of community, and the impact of simply being present for one another.

How to find mental health help when you're struggling. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
https://washingtoncountyhumanservices.com/agencies/behavioral-health-developmental-services
https://www.alleghenycounty.us/Services/Human-Services-DHS/Publications/Resource-Guides
Apps - Just search mental health where you get your apps.
EAP programs are a great place to look for help!!

Additional Resources (Sports Related):
https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2020/12/04/mental-health-resources-2/

Chris:

Always.

Sarah:

the intro. So there you go.

Chris:

Sorry.

Sarah:

to bare bones banter with a gaster girls. We have a very special guest this evening. Michelle Kapats is here to join us. Welcome to the show, Michelle

Michele:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Sarah:

and Michelle is with us. She is a transformational coach and international speaker. That sounds so fancy. I love it. Before,

Chris:

just also jump in and say that Michelle is my friend from college and I loved her and admired her and I continue to love her and admire her. Kapats! It's so good to have you.

Michele:

Thank you. I love you, Gaster.

Sarah:

I was fortunate enough to meet Michelle when I was in high school. Or was I in I was little and she was super fancy to me then. I always thought she was the coolest. So anyway,

Michele:

here more often. I'm just getting so many compliments.

Sarah:

there you go. To make you feel even better. I want to open up with some testimonials from your website, from some of your clients, and then we'll get started. Once I read these, I'm going to hand it over to you, Michelle, to give us your story and tell us a bit more about how you got where you are today. The first testimonial is from David in Sacramento and he states, Michelle is rich in both wisdom, compassion, and endears herself to those she serves. I can't imagine anyone more skilled and selfless in the world of healing practices. next is from Tara in Annapolis, Michelle's transformational coaching is life changing and life fulfilling. I was stuck professionally due to old thoughts, patterns, and habits. Michelle was able to help me dig deep to release these old ways of living and thinking so that I could step into my personal power and have the confidence needed to create and live all of my dreams. Her coaching program is so worth the time and money that you put into it, as you will reap the rewards tenfold. And lastly, I chose this one because my work has a plant in Alexandria, Louisiana. So I thought that was cool.

Michele:

Ah,

Sarah:

And I just liked it. This is Robert from Alexandria, Louisiana. And he says, Michelle has a story, which is both captivating and inspirational. I was engaged and enlightened by Michelle's talk concerning mental illness, alcoholism, and interaction with those whom We care about most importantly, she emphasizes the fact that there are no words to be said that will outperform the act of just being present for those in need. She is a most incredible and outstanding woman. And I wanted to lead, I thought that was. That's a good one to end with and lead into your story since Robert had mentioned it and I also love the mention of just the act of being present. And I think we forget how important that is, but I'll hand it over to you, Michelle. Go for it.

Michele:

Okay. Thank you. It warms my heart to hear those. And it's in the last decade, I have supported more than a thousand men and women to reach their goals. And I'm amazed that my words have been published in national publications that reach 20 million subscribers globally. But the thing I'm most proud of is the way my life has transformed from someone who was uncomfortable in her own skin into someone that truly loves themself today. Because that wasn't always the case. It was the summer of 2005 let me preface that by saying at that time, I was working at a national magazine. I had overcome a clinical depression. My boyfriend and I had just moved in together. I was in my early thirties. And I was checking off the boxes in my head. I felt like my life was just taking off. But on a sweltering hot August day, I found myself wandering back and forth, wondering, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? My heart was beating about a minute. The only thing I could hear was the cars whizzing by me on the Route 68 interstate. My Tasmanian Devil boxer shorts were sliding off my sweaty legs. I used my t shirt to wipe the sweat from my brow, not even caring that I was exposing my breasts, and the hot gravel beneath me pierced my bare feet. And then, I did something that I had no idea if it was going to work. I'd only seen it work in the movies and I stuck out my thumb. But no one would stop. And that day I went down. Have you ever gone down to a place you've never been before? Down to a place of despair and down to a place of shame. I did that, but I also climbed back up after being out there for what felt like hours. I was picked up by a fire truck and taken to the hospital, and that's when I first started to crawl. And then as my confidence grew, that crawl turned into a walk. And then what felt like a decade, but it was only two years into a run. And now I stand proud and tall. I'm not ashamed of that story because what it taught me is just how resilient I am. I've learned that there's an I in illness and a we in wellness. I didn't know that. And I've learned that Mental well being, my mental being, had to be my number one priority. And that created a mission and a commitment in me to want to help others do the same. That's it.

Sarah:

Wow,

Michele:

it.

Sarah:

you could say to that story and it's just amazing how far that you've come and your willingness to share that with all of us is and with all the people that you've reached. It's amazing because there's not a lot of people who want to do that and have the love for other people to share their story to help them. So thank you for doing this for doing what you do for all the people that you help. Christine, any, I don't, I want to give you the chance to talk. Cause I end up talking too much on these.

Chris:

No you're much better. You're much better at these than I am for sure. I think Michelle, I think that the part of your story that I like the best because I've heard it once before, is the way that you come out that liking the person that you are and wanting to share, liking the person that you are. And. Just to relate it back to a little bit of, my story. When Olivia had her suicide attempt and she ended up inpatient for 10 days, when she came out, we we sat in the car. I had to give her a ride home because she was only 14, right? So we sit in the car and I'm like, you want to talk about it? And she's I don't even know who I am. I don't know how I can talk about this. She's I don't know who you are. I don't know how we interact. And the process of building back up from that down, down place is crazy. So inspirational. And I talked to her this afternoon and she had a rough week. She's got midterms and soccer's a bit of a bitch right now. And she's just going through it. Seasonal depression starting, all of this stuff. And she's thank you for for helping me be resilient. for helping me understand a way to not let the stuff that's bothering me bother me in such a way that pulls me back down into that place. So I love the message of figuring out who you are again, and figuring out that the only way you go from the place of just being a shell really, and being the person you want to be is building that kind of Resilience to stuff that happens to you and every time you have to go through that cycle it's reinforced that Yeah, things are going to get tough and things are going to get bad, but I can keep going through it So I appreciate that part.

Michele:

I'm so happy that she's doing so well and I'm so happy that she thanked you for being that support for her. But when it comes to resilience, if you look it up in the dictionary, there are two definitions of resilience. And one says, Something along the lines of the capacity to withstand Hardship, I think it's the capacity to withstand hardship. And the 2nd definition is the ability of an object to spring back into shape, but I like combining them because so many people, when they think of resilience, they think of. Bouncing back that it's bouncing back from difficult situations, but it's actually bouncing forward. It's using that lesson to propel you forward. forward. Resilience is not something that you're born with. It's a skill. But even more than that, I think it's a choice. I think we have that choice as to whether we're going to use an experience to keep us stuck in that despair that I mentioned, in that space, or use it as a way to propel us forward and help us grow.

Chris:

Yeah, 100 percent. Couldn't agree. Couldn't agree more like You can have all the tools you can have all the medication you can have all the therapy But if you're not really willing to put in the effort to look at how to best use those things and how to move forward if you don't understand that. Yeah, those things are there to help you, but it's still going to be up to you to do a lot of that work. Yeah and choosing to, to do that work and to move forward, to take the lessons that life is giving you, even if they suck, like a lot of them just suck. Sorry, Sarah.

Sarah:

Why are you sorry?

Chris:

Because you giggled at me.

Sarah:

No, I just smiled because it's true.

Michele:

But some people don't even realize, some people miss that lesson entirely. because they're so committed to staying where they are and staying in that space that they can't even grasp the lesson because they're just committed to, to, to being at that's where they are. I

Sarah:

so talking about and I'm already going to go off script. I'm looking at my questions and I'm already asking one that's not even there. But talking about love for yourself And everything that you do, Michelle, and working with your clients and helping people, how do you make sure that you continue your mental well being journey? I know when we had talked before you had made a statement about a recovery of sorts, like it's not mental illness or you're looking more at mental being and. Yeah. And being in more of a recovery state. So I guess the question is, how do you make sure that you're always staying on top of your own mental wellbeing? Yeah,

Michele:

And between mental health and mental wellness, and they get lumped together an awful lot. They're interchanged, but I see them distinctly different. Mental health, in my opinion, involves doctors, therapy, medication. It's about the diagnosis. Or struggle and mental wellness, on the other hand, is the journey. It's a lifelong process that helps us build resilience and grow. You don't have to have a mental health challenge to strive for mental wellness. For some people, it's eating getting enough sleep meditation. But it's even more than that for me. It's a complete alignment of the body and mind and an awareness of our thoughts. Because if we think, I think it's, I'm going to get these numbers wrong, but I think it's something like. 65, 000 thoughts a day and 75 percent of them are negative and 95 percent are repetitive. So that doesn't really give us a chance to be aware of them. We can easily latch on to a thought without even realizing that we're doing it. And that thought just becomes. Part of us and so one of the things that I do meditation. I saw you smile, Sarah. So are you a big meditator?

Sarah:

not yet. It's something that we just started talking about, or we've actually been talking about for quite some time on throughout our regular episodes. We just started reading and discussing 10 percent Happier by Dan Harris. And it's all about his quieting the voice in his mind and his journey. To meditation and I myself, I feel a lot like Dan Harris did in the beginning and feel like I have no hope in meditation. So it's something that I really want to explore, but I'm already against myself. So we're supposed to actually start tomorrow. Tomorrow's our first day of meditation. We have committed to doing five minutes of meditation. So that I just wrote it down, Michelle meditation. So I was going to ask you for suggestions on how you take this extremely loud and nonstop mind and quiet it. Because I find that so overwhelmingly challenging.

Michele:

I would love to share with you very briefly about meditation because I meditate every day, but when I started, it was after I came out of a clinical depression and everyone kept saying, you need to meditate. You need to meditate. I suggest meditation. And. I sat there, I sat cross legged, I put my hands like this, I played the music and my mind sped up and started thinking about what I was going to have for dinner, a conversation with a colleague, and I thought,

Sarah:

Yep.

Michele:

this doesn't work. And then I went to a meditation class. It was 20 people sitting in the dark by candlelight. Around a table and someone took us through a guided meditation and then you spent the rest of the class talking about it. Somebody would walk in the door late and I was sitting there, my eyes wide open, waving. Come on over here. There's a seat over here. It didn't work. But in that class, I heard someone talk about nature as their form of meditation, a walking meditation. And this person said when he was in the great outdoors, his mind was completely silent. He wasn't thinking about anything. I made a note of it. I didn't necessarily believe it, but I made a note of it. And then I realized when I was walking my dog one day. That I wasn't thinking about anything. I wasn't worried about the future. I wasn't thinking about the past. I was fully in that moment. And nature became my form of meditation for a number of years. Then eventually I got into guided meditations and now I'm practicing silent meditations, which I find very challenging. But all it really is familiarizing yourself with the present moment. So it's not trying to empty your mind of those thoughts. It's observing them and letting them pass like it's a parade. So you're thinking about what you're going to have for dinner. Don't latch on to that thought. Let it go right by. And it's just being in the here and now. Everyone thinks it's, completely emptying the mind, but I haven't found that to be true. It's more observing and letting go.

Sarah:

That makes a little more sense than just emptying it because I don't I really, I can't just stop it. But yeah that, it's a lot of what we've been reading, Christine, the

Chris:

All of it. All of it.

Sarah:

it pass and being in the moment

Michele:

it's more observing your thoughts and not getting absorbed by them. So not. Not getting observed by them, but just observing them as they go.

Sarah:

so what am I going to have for dinner that passes and then I go on to the next slot. I don't do, what am I going to have for dinner? Okay.

Chris:

We should have chicken. Do we have broccoli? We should get broccoli. What if cheese? Broccoli and cheese, they're good. Should we have potatoes? I bet there's potatoes in there. My thighs look like potatoes. Yeah, that's, just don't do that.

Sarah:

Do you have any what's the word? Recommendations for like apps or anything to use to guide us and help us get started.

Michele:

I love Insight Timer. Are you familiar with Insight Timer? They have, I'm pretty sure it's free. They have,

Sarah:

what I like.

Michele:

A wide variety of different meditations on tons of different things. Tara who we went to college with, has a meditation, has meditations of her own. on Insight Timer. But there's tons on stress, depression, confidence. There's also many masterclasses in there. And I listen to it every night for the music. I listen to a very low, I need. I can't go to sleep to sound, but I can't go to sleep to silence either. Like I need just a little bit of something.

Sarah:

Yep. Yeah, I'm the same way. And I just had a brilliant thought because I can't just let them pass by.

Chris:

It's a

Sarah:

I'm not actively meditating now, so I feel like I can go ahead and do that. The Peloton, we have the Peloton downstairs and they actually have meditation classes.

Michele:

Absolutely.

Chris:

There you go.

Sarah:

use that.

Chris:

It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Everybody I know is very successful. Everyone that I went to college with is very successful at helping other people with their mental illnesses.

Michele:

Lovely shout outs. But it's, wait, you just said something I was going to comment on. The meditation

Chris:

everywhere. It's everywhere.

Sarah:

It's everywhere.

Michele:

Oh, but it's when you don't meditate on a regular basis, you can put so much pressure on yourself to do it. Or am I doing it? Or this isn't right. Or maybe I should be doing this and there is no right or wrong way. It's however, for some people, it's prayer. For other people, it might be mantras. It's, it looks different for everyone. So I think we get caught up in you have to sit cross legged and you have to have incense and you have to have your hands open and you don't have to do that. It's just getting quiet.

Sarah:

Yeah. I think that everybody that's exactly what everybody sees. That's what Dan Harris saw. That's what I see. That's how we get delayed, in our starting of it, but there's just entirely too much evidence of the awesome things that meditation does for your mental wellbeing out there for us to ignore it any longer. Like it's, there's something there. Science says so.

Michele:

Absolutely. So meditation is something that I do. Tapping is also something I do. Are you familiar with tapping? Either one of you?

Sarah:

Do you tap dance? Cause I'd like you to do that. That would be fun.

Michele:

No. Could you imagine

Sarah:

Okay.

Michele:

me,

Sarah:

In a little tutu,

Michele:

tap dancing actually?

Sarah:

with a

Chris:

Yes, I could. Michelle. Yes, I could. It makes my eye twitch a little bit to imagine you tap dancing, but I can see it In, in any number of situations or locations at Bethany

Michele:

That's a problem.

Chris:

The round, round building, like in the front steps of there. So tapping, tell us about it, Michelle.

Michele:

it's a stress reduction tool and it balances the energy systems of the body. So there's tons of videos online about tapping, but basically it works on the same points that acupuncture does, but instead of using needles, you're using your fingers. like two fingers and you tap on these nine meridian points of the body while saying, the idea is you're tapping out negative emotion and tapping in positive ones. So it starts on the karate chop part of the hand and I'd say something like, this lack of confidence. don't feel confident. And then I go, and it's the top of the head, the top of the eye, the side of the eye, under the eye, the nose, the chin, right under your collarbone. And then for women, right under the arm, under the bra strap. And then I like to end on the wrist, not everybody does that, but you go through a negative. Like calling out the negative emotion. And then I would tap in and say, I am so confident. And then I would go through the whole thing several times of confidence, but it's not just, there's tons of videos out there on everything from. Tapping to find your true love to get abundance, but therapists use it with their clients in trauma. Students teachers have used it with their students for test anxiety and athletes have used it before going out. So it's been used in a wide variety of things. But anyway, the point of this monologue is I tap after I meditate every day.

Sarah:

Okay. So that's something you do daily as a part of the meditation

Michele:

After my meditation, I have a tapping routine. So I go through a meditation. Then I go through a tapping routine after I do that.

Sarah:

Okay. I'll have to look into that. Cause I've never heard of that. So that sounds interesting because I can see myself tapping and laughing at myself. This is where I have to be serious and I'm not good at it because

Michele:

If you're doing it by yourself, looking it up online, I think I have, I used to have a tapping video on my website. I don't think I still do. But you can find tapping videos online. And if you're by yourself, and you find one that appeals to you. And you're all alone. You may not laugh at yourself as you go through it. The only one, when I first learned it, the only one that I got that, that I was a little bit like, okay. was the under the arm one going like this.

Sarah:

yeah,

Michele:

That one, I felt a little ridiculous. And obviously if you're in the middle of something or you're stressed out or you're in the middle of something and you're out somewhere, you can't sit there and go like this. But what you can do is just focus on the breath. and tap on the chest. And even that can have a calming effect and bring someone back in their body in a moment of stress.

Sarah:

Yeah, I'm definitely, I, okay. Let's do one thing at a time. Let's start with meditation.

Michele:

Start with meditation.

Sarah:

And then we can explore other things.

Michele:

Absolutely. I

Sarah:

it's good to know there are other things too. So this is exciting. This is a fun little journey for us. We'll keep you posted, Michelle, on how it goes.

Chris:

You're allowed to laugh too. Like you can tap and giggle at the same time. I would imagine that

Michele:

Google.

Sarah:

Yeah, I don't think, I think it's I'm imagining that tapping is like meditation and all of this, you have to make it your own and what's going to help you. And I get like making it your own is the most important thing. So

Chris:

right. Sitting crisscross applesauce was just impossible for me when I was trying meditation during COVID because I just was too chubby to sit crisscross applesauce. So I would have to sit criss, one leg out. And I was like, I guess that's good enough. That's good enough. But yeah, these are great. Michelle, what else you got for us? I

Michele:

meditation, tapping. What else do I do to maintain my mental well being? I've also I'm, journaling is a big one for me. Journaling has always been, I've kept a journal since I was a sophomore in high school, so I've always written and I think that became my love of writing started from that all those years ago. But breath work is another one that I am, do. I've tried different types of breath work and I'm still familiarizing myself with it because there are moments when I'm doing it that I feel like I'm going to have a panic attack. I'm not, but it has that, it brings about that same,

Sarah:

Yeah.

Michele:

just I'm trying to get better at that.

Sarah:

Okay. If you're trying to get better at that, I'm going to that, but that's years down the road for me years.

Chris:

think you're better than you think, knucklehead.

Michele:

I think you're better than you think too. I think you're going to surprise yourself tomorrow when you meditate.

Sarah:

I'm excited about it. Like I was I think a couple episodes we brought it up and I was like, Oh shit, my hands are sweating. Like just talking about it, but now I'm excited about it. We'll see. And I think Sissy, you were supposed to send me something.

Chris:

Oh, yeah, I forgot

Sarah:

I'll check out insight timer though. When we're done here, I'll check that

Michele:

There's tons of different, tons of

Sarah:

I'll check up my Peloton app. and see what's in there. I always forget about that. There's so much shit in there. That's awesome. All right. How about we take on one of these questions that I actually wrote down on this piece of paper? Let's go. You are trained in the mastery method. What exactly is the mastery method and why is this the method you chose to pursue? I'm assuming that there are other methods.

Michele:

There are other methods. When I first Set out to be a coach. Learned a lot of different things. I learned a little bit about neuro linguistic programming, which deals with a subconscious mind. I learned about hypnosis, but I was very I was still figuring out how I wanted to serve people. And. The hypnosis didn't set with me because what am I going to do? Hypnotize you to be mentally well? Like I just, I didn't feel, I didn't feel aligned with it like I thought I would. At the time. So the mastery method deals with five areas. It's somatic, which is mind body, your mind body connection, unconscious mindset, somatic, emotional mindset, behavioral. I'm missing one. Unconscious. And it focuses on all those. A lot of people just come from the mindset, so just work with you on changing your mindset, but this really looks at a variety of different issues emotionally, behaviorally, unconsciously, and somatically, and how all of those play a part In what it is, you're trying to achieve. So my programs are broken down in there, either 3 or 6 month programs, and they're really broken down into 3 phases, which is awareness. Which is what we talked about earlier. You have to know what those stories are the ones that are keeping you that keep playing in the mind. So it's 1st, becoming aware of those thoughts that are tripping you up. And then it's really acceptance. So digging a little deeper and seeking where those stories came from and how they came about. And then the last part is aligned action, but you're taking action every step of the way. So there's a big difference in taking action and taking aligned action because you can. Take action in doing anything. I'm going to exercise. I'm going to, but is it along the lines and congruent with where you're trying to go? What your goal is where you're trying to get to. It's taking aligned action, so it's awareness, acceptance, aligned action.

Chris:

This is amazing because michelle, sarah and I have been working on ourselves so to speak for a little bit and part of how we've been going about that is reading books, right? The subtle art of not giving a fuck. I was like, this is an amazing book. I love This orange book that has a swear word on it And I bought in the airport so I could read it on the plane like a badass. So that one is all about finding out who you are. Like what are your values, right? What's the stuff that you really should give a fuck about and what should you just cast aside? Then we shifted into atomic habits and that's like that action part. But it's hard to, it's hard to know what actions to take. What do I, what tiny things do I change if I don't know what my values are? So if I'm not lining up my actions with who I want to be as a person, then this is a, it's a wasted kind of activity. And then sliding, carrying on that from meditation and trying to give yourself the space to do the action, right? Like for me, that's what meditation should do, is give me the ability to slow the thoughts down long enough to be like, Hey this rational, impulsive thing that you're about to do, maybe take a heartbeat and think about whether or not you need to eat a whole pie'cause you don't like and The I could eat a whole pie though. Fucking delicious.

Michele:

but you have a really good point in that. A lot of times, you don't know you have to know where you're going, who you are, and what the goal is where you're going, where you want to go. And a lot of people, struggle with that. They don't know where they want to go. So that's part of the work is figuring that out is figuring out where you want to go and how we can get there better, faster.

Sarah:

So far we've discovered that the books we read don't give you that answer. And I, it's very disappointing that nobody is telling me exactly where I'm going. Apparently I have to do That myself.

Chris:

Upsetting,

Michele:

Good book. The subtle art of not giving a fuck is a good book. You are a badass. Have you guys read that one?

Sarah:

Sissy, I think you gave me that one. I think it's in a drawer. I never read it. I'll add That to my list.

Michele:

That's another good one. But there's, also trying to think the book that I'd love. Happy pocket full of money. Is that the name of it?

Chris:

That sounds like something on a Chinese food menu. But

Michele:

money.

Chris:

I will take that.

Michele:

going to have to text you, I'm going to have to let you know the name of this book, but it's a phenomenal book and it's not about money. The book is not about money. It's about being abundant and becoming abundant and living abundantly by breaking that down into gratitude and abundance. And I, why can't I remember the name of this book? It's going

Sarah:

You got it. You got it. It's a happy pocket full of money. that's the name of it.

Michele:

the book I meant though.

Sarah:

Okay. Oh, okay. That's a book, but that's

Michele:

know that's a book, but I don't think that's the book I meant.

Chris:

Quit trying to Google it, Sarah. Michelle, I think I interrupted you. Do you have more mastery stuff to talk about? I feel like I jumped in and was like, we like that. Yeah.

Michele:

no, I know. I'm good.

Chris:

Alright.

Sarah:

The thought I had was, so you were talking about the master method and your style of coaching. And in my head, I'm thinking that sounds so awesome. I feel like I want to do that. Do that job. But of course I'm not, I have to work on myself first. Do you have any clients of yours that have gone on to be coaches themselves?

Michele:

Not my current clients, not my current clients. Have they gone on to be coaches themselves?

Sarah:

I just thought that was I, feel like everybody should come out of this. Wow, this is amazing. I want to do it.

Michele:

It was, I don't know what year it was, 2019, 2018, 2019. And I was at a crossroads. I had ended up that job at the national magazine that I love so much and quit writing for a while and ended up working for a variety of different, Government contractors. And I was just very far away from what I wanted to do. So I hired a life coach. I got a life coach and it was in. So my, your question, have I had any clients become a life coach? My answer to that is no, but it was my work with my life coach that made me want to go on this journey. Yeah, and you don't, so it's not the, I'm trained in the mastery method. I would never ask a client to go somewhere that I haven't gone myself. So everything that I learned in the mastery method. I went through, I experienced. I would never ask someone to go somewhere that, that I personally, that I haven't gone myself. In some of these exercises and modalities. But it's not. There's such a difference between coaching and therapy and a lot of people don't real, a lot of people don't know what coaches do and you don't, it's forward thinking, it's forward looking where therapy looks a lot and we look at where you've been, but we look at where you've been in order to get where you're going. And I think therapy can send, tend to look at the past and look at the childhoods maybe more intensely than, I do. But we do, we also go there, but it's only in service to where you're going and your goals.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Chris:

and just so you guys know I would never want to be a life coach. That's too much people. Too

Michele:

Too much. people,

Chris:

Yeah. Yeah, no, there's that. I like to sit in front of the computer and look at spreadsheets. That's my jam.

Sarah:

to do that too, but this sound, this just sounds so

Chris:

Uplifting and positive?

Sarah:

Like I, again, I have a lot of work to do on myself. I'm not going to go out and

Chris:

It's still Michelle's

Sarah:

school tomorrow. But it just, it's, it just seems like such an uplifting thing to do. And once you dig yourself out of that, once you dig yourself out, you're crawling and you're learning who you are. Especially when you've gone down pretty far, it's to me, this is a great way to share that journey with somebody else and help them lift themselves out. And I feel like if somebody could do it for me, I would want to do it for someone else.

Michele:

It is, let me preface, it is the best profession and it's so fulfilling. That's the biggest thing is it's so fulfilling. But let me say, it doesn't mean that you have it all figured out, that you have the answers and you just have to be a few steps ahead of who you're coaching. So like when You're in the third grade and you look up at the fourth graders like the fourth graders got it going on. You just have to be a little bit ahead. And I am a coach who always has a coach. I have a coach.

Sarah:

Sense. Yeah,

Michele:

I'm always. Want to be growing and evolving and changing and learning. So what I learn, I can then take back and share with the people I'm helping.

Sarah:

yeah, that bit that makes sense. And yeah, that's all I'll say. Sis, what's, what did you have to say? You want me to be Olivia's coach?

Chris:

No, you've already done enough, thank you. We're good. On Aunt Sarah. Thank you. She is already the small version of you, and it's terrifying. I appreciate it. Yeah, so being a step ahead is like when I read the book, and then you don't read the book.

Sarah:

I don't like, but I don't like that. I want you to, I just want you to be on the book level that I am, or at least act like you're on the book level as me. So you should work on that. I'll be a great, You should work on that,

Michele:

on that. Get back to me.

Sarah:

Y'all be a great coach. I could hear people listening this what the fuck is she talking about? What kind of coach would she be? That's exactly what she'd say. What the fuck is wrong with you? Like that? yeah, okay. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

Chris:

You're amazing.

Sarah:

Okay, one.

Chris:

somewhere in there too.

Sarah:

Oh, I like it. I have one more question on coaching. So you offer a 60 minute free. What is it called? Free clarity call. What can someone expect in that call, or at least can you give us an idea of what that call is all about? Maybe I want to make a call that

Michele:

In the clarity call, so the clarity call is really figuring out. So 1 of the questions, and I'll go ahead and give you a thought provoking. Consideration. Say it is December 31st, 2025, and you were to look back on the year and say, that was the best year of my life. What happens? What would you want to happen in that year?

Sarah:

makes my heart palpitate because I don't have a good answer. I guess there's no good answer.

Michele:

It's whatever it is for you. It can be, it's anything. If you, what would make that year feel like that was a great year?

Sarah:

Yeah. And it's, it is thought provoking. Cause I feel like, but then I feel like if I take too much time, then I'm probably just making something up that sounds good.

Chris:

You'll know if you're making it up.

Michele:

up. You want, like what was, and you don't have to tell me, but I go with when I said that The first thing that came to your mind or the thing that you want to say, but you don't think you can say, or

Sarah:

came, the first thing that came to mind, I'll answer if that's okay. Cause the first thing that came to mind, which I thought was selfish and was like but maybe not is our podcast. I'd like to make that a successful for us.

Chris:

Yes.

Sarah:

saying that out loud kind of makes me want to vomit because we continue to do this. We're not making any money. We continue to say that we're doing this just for us, which we really are, but. It's also been a super rewarding thing for us. And that reward comes exactly from what we were talking about. If we can just get we, we get an email here and there from somebody that we've helped in some way, we've opened them up to going to a therapist. We've gotten several emails like that. We've gotten several comments that we've helped people move on and deal with things and get the help that they need. And that's. If I can make this a full time job, that's what I would want that year to look like. I would want it to be making this what we do and helping people and making this successful and being able to do this all the time because I feel like I don't put enough into it. I feel like Sissy puts in a bit more. But it just, yeah, I'd like to do a lot more with what we're doing here. I think we're doing great things, but we don't have the time because of our real jobs to really push it. So there, that was long. Sorry.

Michele:

what would it mean? What would it mean if that happened? What would that mean? If that, if it was successful, you're doing this full time. What does that mean for you?

Sarah:

And this is where I got caught up. Cause the first thing I want to say sounds really dumb. It makes my heart happy. And It's an emotional thing. Now I'm going to cry, but,

Chris:

Oh, no.

Sarah:

but that's what it is. It's,

Chris:

Your first responses are neither selfish nor dumb. Dummy

Sarah:

but that's what it does. That's what it's an emotional thing. And being able to share my story and that helping other people and being able to make that what I do. That would be, I think that's what it does. It makes my heart happy. Damn you, Michelle.

Michele:

you one more question. What's stopping you? What's stopping you from doing that?

Sarah:

I'm good. I'm good. I have, I just did one little meltdown. It's fine. It's fine. What's stopping us from it's

Chris:

par for the course for this show.

Michele:

Stopping you. I'm talking to you. What's stopping you?

Chris:

Okay, two breakdowns.

Sarah:

I've had so many ideas of what I want to do with my life and they've all been wrong.

Chris:

Of course they have. Sorry, I'll just sit behind you and say encouraging things. Everyone feels that way. Until you find the one that's right.

Sarah:

Yeah, I, that, and it's not like I can quit my job. There's always a, Money aspect to it and finding the time to put into it that would get us to the next level. So those are the things that stopped me. But that initial one is big one.

Michele:

So you feel like you've made a lot of wrong choices?

Sarah:

Feel like the wrong choices I made are part of my story, which makes it me. And I hate when people are like, I have no regrets because it made me, like there's a ton of shit I'd go back and do different. But those big choices, I don't think that I would change even though they've led me to a point where I'm 46 and still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. I wouldn't say they were wrong choices or bad choices, it just didn't work out the way I wanted it to. It didn't work out the way I saw it. You're scaring me the way you're looking at me, Michelle.

Michele:

No, I'm thinking, and when I think I

Sarah:

sorry. I feel bad. I, cause I took over the call with

Chris:

That's okay.

Sarah:

Clarity call with you.

Michele:

and you are more than welcome to give me a call for a clarity call. You both are clarity call is absolutely free and it's just to delve deeper and really figure out where you are and where you want to go and how you can get there.

Chris:

see Michelle can help you with your values.

Sarah:

Yeah. And that's, that's where I always get stuck. That's where the book stops and it doesn't tell me how to do it.

Chris:

It tells you how to do it, you just don't want to.

Sarah:

Okay, it doesn't tell me exactly what to do and it doesn't give me a step by step exactly what I need to move on.

Chris:

Write down

Michele:

not going to give you step by step exactly what

Sarah:

know.

Michele:

but I will, in coaching or in my coaching, there are exercises and there are things that help you explore. Because the answers are in you. You got that answer like that. Like, when I asked those questions, something came to your mind like that. All the answers are in you. And in coaching, we just help you, guide you, to uncover those answers. Alright,

Sarah:

I read things that ask these questions, because I feel like I've read things that ask these same questions. I'm meh. I go through in my head and I'm like, alright, whatever, next page. Like I don't really, I'm not forced. I don't know if that's the word. I'm not guided to dig deeper. And so that's something that coaching would probably help.

Chris:

You're so smart.

Sarah:

All right. I'm done. I'm I've cried. I'm now sleepy. I don't have, yeah. Huh.

Chris:

All right, I got a couple of questions. So

Michele:

go for it, Gaster.

Chris:

Michelle a lot of what a lot of what sarah and I are trying to do on the podcast is get people to accept that Working on who you are as a person is part of that mental wellness. That's part of You Enjoying a good life and enjoying a being the person that you want to be the person who who wants to get up out of bed and who, goes out and does the things that they want to do. So I think having you on here and helping us talk about that wellness. Transcripts provided in this video are made possible by the members of the Resource Club at www. resourceclub. org. mental health challenges that you have, right? Because people have forever been shying away from Oh, I don't want anyone to know about my diagnosis. I don't want anyone to know about how I struggle with this or how I struggle with that. And I think a big part of what we'd like to get the guests take on is how do we change that? How do we change that as a group of people who are trying to push forward the idea that there's nothing wrong with going to the hospital and having to take care of yourself mentally the same way you would go to the hospital and get yourself taken care of if you have a broken arm? How do we move things forward there?

Michele:

It's interesting because no there's a lot of things that come to mind. And one of the things I talk about a lot is self stigma, because it's something that I suffered with for such a long time. And even though. I have been in what I would call mental health recovery for the last few decades. And all I mean by that is I haven't been manic or depressed or been in the hospital or anything along those lines. So that to me is mental health recovery. So even though For two decades, I've been there, still, under the surface, just a little bit. There's been that, I didn't realize it was still present. We, so many people that suffer can hold on to that shame and not feeling good enough. Or, In my case, I lowered my expectations of myself when I lost that job because my mental health was so For three years, from 2002 to 2005, once a year I was back on the psych ward. I went through this three year period that I couldn't break that cycle, and I really started to wonder, is this what the rest of my life is gonna look like? And as a result of that. I lowered my expectations of myself and my place in the world. We talk about our goals and our dreams. I pushed mine down. I no longer felt that perhaps I could achieve them. And even though it had been two decades, It was only through my own work, my own personal development work that I realized that was still present and moreover that it wasn't true, that it was only that I was never broken. It was only my perception that was broken. And when I realized that and realized that, I can do that too. I see you and I admire you. There's no reason I can't do that. I can do that and have the courage to go after these things again and dust off those dreams and make them 10 times bigger. But when we talk about that and we talk about what we can do as a society, even today. And it's been 2 decades, but even today, I was at a conference last weekend and the speaker was talking about something and made 2 references. And in 1, she was talking and she referred to something as cray cray. And everybody laughed. And then there was another comment. about someone being unstable. These comments were not directed at me. These comments, everybody laughed at. They're funny comments. I may have smiled, but even all this time later, there was a little, just a tiny little turn in my stomach. Just a little bit, just a tiny little bit So it's being mindful of the language we use, being mindful of the way we talk about mental illness. And that also goes in the way people that have it talk about themselves. So for example, There are a lot of healers that believe whatever you put on the other side of I am, you tend to embody. So I will never say I am depressed or I am bipolar. Instead, I would say I'm someone who has Depression. I'm someone who has and it's such a subtle shift, but when you do it long enough, it starts to have a positive impact. You are not depression. You are not your illness. And when you say that, you're taking that on. So watching the language we use when we talk about mental illness as a society and watching the way we talk about mental illness when we are someone that has that illness and are talking about ourselves.

Chris:

No, I love that. I think it's so important. It, just to share a little more, when Olivia came out of the psych ward, she was like, don't tell anybody, don't tell anybody. And I was like, it's your story to tell. I won't tell anybody. But the only thing worse than having everyone know that you were in the psych ward is being the only person that knows you were in the psych ward. You gotta share your story. You gotta kind of claim who you are. And when you're ready to do that, we'll do it. And until then we'll keep it between us and we'll keep working on it. And it, now she's yeah, this is my story. This is what I, this is what I faced and this is how I came out on the other side of it. And this is how I continue to battle as somebody who faces these issues. Yeah, I, I really look forward to being in a world where these sorts of challenges and disorders are treated as challenges and disorders, not as something that's a character flaw. Because it's not a character flaw to have a spicy neuro typ, neuro atypical brain. It's a challenge. And it's not something that, that makes you less or makes you. Not worthy of Having all of the dreams that you could possibly have. So yeah, I appreciate that take on it

Michele:

I just did an Instagram post today for World Mental Health Day and on it, in it, I talked about You are not alone. So it's when we share our story that it's cut in half. We think that when we're going through something, or when we're in the middle of something, or when we're uncomfortable, we feel like we're the only person. And that's when And as I said in the post and I'll speak for myself, when I feel that way, I want to isolate. I don't want to be around people. I want to be by myself. I want to get through this. It's I got this. I can do this. I got this. You say, I got this. But. It's when we share our story that we realize we're not alone. And when you know that on a cellular level, that's when your story, there's power in sharing your experience, and it can be used to help somebody and to truly know that you're never alone.

Chris:

That's the that's the whole basic message of the entire podcast Is that there's a ton of us who go through this stuff every day. There's a ton of us who have Who, who want to talk about it and want to share it and want to be part of your community and want to be the person that you can look to and be like, Hey, sorry about the spicy brain. Sorry that you sorry that you have challenges and sorry that you have people who have, gone through. Horrible, bad places in their life, but you're, you have us and we'll at least make you laugh once or twice an episode and you can look to that as a little bit of comfort, but yeah, that's the, that's, there's so much power in that kind of community and extending it out. I think that is why Sarah and I continue to reach out to our tens and tens of listeners every week.

Michele:

The other thing, too, and that you've you're doing in doing that, the laughter is so important because you feel like You can't laugh, but when you laugh, you were. It, when you smile, you're sending signals to your brain. So when you laugh, as soon as you laugh, you realize it's going to be okay. As soon as you laugh, you know it's going to be okay.

Chris:

100%. That is the whole basis of our family and the whole basis of everything that we're trying to do here. Yeah, I think, just to wrap it up, Michelle, do you have anything any advice for our listeners who this is the question I ask all the time. We've got people who are going through like pretty big challenges who have gone through pretty big challenges and then there's those of us who are on the sidelines. It's we're just like supporting our friends and relatives who have a lot of challenges. Do you have any advice for kind of those of us helping to support people going through those dark times?

Michele:

The biggest thing that appreciated the most were the people who just sat with me when I was in my depression, I, and we didn't talk about that. But I went through a clinical depression. I was off work for 2 months. I barely got out of bed. I didn't want to talk. I had nothing to say. I didn't want to talk to anybody. I didn't have anything to say. And those people who came and just sat with me, it was okay that I didn't have anything to say. You didn't try to fix it. You didn't try to ask what was wrong. You just were present. And that meant so there's so much that there's such a power. In knowing somebody is there, or again, back to my you are never alone, when someone is just beside you, you're not trying to make it better, you're not trying to ask what's wrong, you're just there. You don't have to say anything. When I I had an aunt that used to show up on her lunch hour every day to try to get me to go for a walk when I wouldn't get out of bed. And I would hear the doorbell and I'd look out the window and I'd see her and I'd duck down and hope she didn't see me. And I'd wait until she left. I did not want to talk to her. But she came back every single day. And one of those days, I opened the door. And we went for a walk. We didn't talk on those walks, but my legs moved. I felt the sun on my face. Those were my first steps toward healing. And I appreciated so much that she didn't. It was okay that we just walked in silence. It was okay that I didn't have anything to say. It was okay. She was just there and that meant the world to me.

Chris:

Yeah, I love that. It, because, it I've never been sad like that. Sarah's been sad like that, Olivia's been sad like that, lots of people have been sad like that, but I've never been sad like that. And it's hard for someone who doesn't have that experience to, not want to fix it. Just just maybe try not being sad. Just maybe do that. But to hear that all it takes for us to help you in Support you during those times is just to be there is great news because I can do that all day Like it's the talking where I run into challenges. So For me, this is happy. I can show up and knock on your door all you want Like we can go for a walk. We can hang out we can pet cats. Whatever. I'm in and it's so nice to you know understand That's enough. Sometimes that's enough just to be there and to make sure that you know you're not alone. And it's hard for me to realize that, that's enough, because I'm just a natural person that just wants to fix it. Let me fix it. Do you want to talk about it? We should talk about it. I'm

Sarah:

Also it's your daughter that you're, it's your daughter is your main focus and That's hard to not fix that. So

Chris:

It was a

Sarah:

always going to be your gut instinct to try to fix it. But just know that, that. You don't have to.

Chris:

It was a lesson, and just in general, you can, when I think to go back to the stigma piece of it, it's, we've got a, we've got a couple of friends who have lost children to suicide and their stories are heartbreaking, right? Not they're completely heartbreaking, but compounding it is people don't know how to talk to them about it and don't know how to. To support them and to the point where these guys are in the grocery store and people who have known them for years and years are just like, and will take off in the other direction because they don't want to have an interaction and have it be awkward. And it, that's hard on the person that's doing that, I would imagine, and that's hard on, on them because they're like I wouldn't mind talking about it. I don't mind not talking about it. I just want to interact with people like normal at the grocery store.

Michele:

And the biggest thing that would make a difference is, and obviously I've had, I've lost friends to suicide, but I don't, I've never lost a child. But in those situations, just saying to someone, I don't know what to say, but I want you to know I'm here. And that's all you have to say. I don't know the words. I'm not going to pretend I do. I can't imagine, but I'm here. And that's all you have to say. Gaster

Chris:

you take the whispers that happen behind closed doors and you take the, the gossipy part of it and be like, nah, we don't have to do that, y'all. I know that I'm suffering and you know that I'm suffering and we might as well just talk about it. You know give each other a little nod about it. It's fine. Sarah Do you have anything because I think I've squeezed all I can squeeze out of Michelle kapats here,

Sarah:

Feel like she's got hours to go. I feel like we could do this forever. But instead, we'll go

Chris:

do want her to get a rest

Sarah:

then we will we'll go ahead and wrap it up. In our show notes, we will put Michelle's website, which is michellecapotts. com. Pretty simple. One L in the Michelle. I always get it confused. Always.

Chris:

Tres French. Tres

Sarah:

know why, I don't know why, but as you saw the the 60 minute free clarity call

Chris:

That's going to be an emotional thing.

Sarah:

Yeah, check it out. Check it out. Check it out. We will put all the links in the show notes and just a huge thank you to you, Michelle, for all that you do for your clients, for all of us in general. And thank you so much for taking the time to hang out with us, crazy gaster girls and join us for our little journey here

Michele:

It was so much fun. Thank you guys for having me.

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Christine Kanalis

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Sarah Leibhart

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